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David - WI
04-05-2012, 06:41 AM
Do you guys have any insight into buying yellow perch?

Do you buy eggs, fry, fingerlings... or buy fish that are about to spawn and try to hatch your own?

The main reason I ask is that the "advertised" prices for fingerlings are about 6x more than expected. Does the price drop significantly if you buy more fish?

The only "discounts" that I have seen were "up to 15%" on $3000 or more; which is still 5x as much as they should be (according to the owner of one of the major hatcheries who won't send fish to Wisconsin due to the testing requirements for importing fish).

This will put us out of business before we even have water in the tanks if we can't find a more reasonable source. :?

keith_r
04-05-2012, 06:47 AM
i've bought yp fingerlings from 2 different sources, most pond stocking places are a couple hours drive from my house, but i happened to be working near one and picked up 25 2 to 3" yp for less than 1.00 each.. i also had 25 yp 2" to 3" shipped to my house, total cost around $53
buying eggs would take some work, and it would be at least 2 years before you could harvest..
you can buy 3" to 4" fingerlings and harvest in a year or less.. look here and search "by species"
http://www.wisconsinaquaculture.com/Sea ... etails.cfm (http://www.wisconsinaquaculture.com/Search_For_WAA_Members_Details.cfm)

David - WI
04-05-2012, 07:04 AM
Thanks Keith. Those are the places I started with, and were also recommended by the local DNR biologist. I'll probably have to visit a few of them and find out what the "real" price is for larger quantities... anywhere near $1 per fish is too much.

keith_r
04-05-2012, 08:32 AM
check out the "PondBoss" forum, and ask there for yellow perch, you should be able to find them for a good price

David - WI
04-05-2012, 09:19 AM
Thanks... hundreds of hours "researching" and never came across that one before. 8-)

foodchain
04-05-2012, 11:41 AM
Prices are going up on YP. Way up, as the demand is going up faster than farmers can produce. There are getting to be a lot fewer of them around too, especially in the Great Lakes region.
PondBoss is a great place to look. Lot's of positive experience with them.
What kind of volume are you looking for?
Depending on YOUR skill level will depend on what size, and age you should go with. The smaller they are the more sensitive to issues they are and the higher the probability of mortality. But the more you get for the same shipping charges.

Please provide more info on what you are doing, your operation, etc so that I can give you better advice.

I have extensive experience with breeding culturing native US species, and me personally would buy either juivie to young adult to condition for breeding IF I had the time/space/labor to do so.

Or if I had the ponds ready, and just needing to grow out I would buy the fingerlings and go that route as space is no longer a concern and less labor that way. Faster return on investment. Compare this to a grow out cattle operation vs a cow/calf operation.

However, YP are slow growing and they try to breed at an early age I have seen them try at about 3 inches. Most places that try to make a commercially viable return on them have a hard time doing so because of these two reasons. Energy spent on growing is spent on breeding.
2 years roughly to reach market size depending on feed, space, and water quality......long time to staive off the creditors.
I would suggest if $'s are a concern, looking to a more viable species until more familiarity is aquired. Possibly purchasing a dozen or so, and learning on those. IF successfull that dozen will provide you not only with the valued experience that money can't buy, but will clearly SAVE you. But it will also give you young fingerlings and fry that you can add more YP too down the road.

Start SMALL. Let me say that again....SMALL.

That way if there's an OOPS, which will happen...sooner or later. You don't have a lot of $'s tied up. I have watched a lot of $ in fish die because I made oops's and didn't have the experience to react appropriately. Bet I do now though.

keith_r
04-05-2012, 11:58 AM
... stuff deleted...
However, YP are slow growing and they try to breed at an early age I have seen them try at about 3 inches. Most places that try to make a commercially viable return on them have a hard time doing so because of these two reasons. Energy spent on growing is spent on breeding.
... stuff deleted..
Start SMALL. Let me say that again....SMALL.

That way if there's an OOPS, which will happen...sooner or later. You don't have a lot of $'s tied up. I have watched a lot of $ in fish die because I made oops's and didn't have the experience to react appropriately. Bet I do now though.

i know that in the south, when people say perch, they mean bluegill.. which do breed early, tend to stunt in ponds from overcrowding that are don't have enough predators..

i'm not sure if you're talking about the same yellow perch (perca flavescens)
yellow perch take up to 2 years to breed for the first time, and put most of there energy into growing before putting energy into reproduction.. they usually reach market size before reaching sexual maturity;

http://www.ftai.com/articles/GAAManciDec00.pdf

and i agree.. start small.. you may be able to find a pond owner that is stocking and will let you get in on his order..

foodchain
04-05-2012, 12:08 PM
YP...yes...they are more torpedo shaped than bluegill with dark banding. Little teeth, and white flaky meat that tends to be a little sweet. They take 2 years to mature and to successfully breed. Doesn't mean they don't try. I had them as a kid in WA. Fun to catch, not fun to clean and eat due to bones...or maybe at 12 I just sucked at it.

The point is....they grow SOOOOOO slow. Depending on intended use there may be better species out there. But we haven't been given enough info yet. So...right now you and me are just BS'ing.

But YP are one of my favorite species, they don't like the heat down here though so it's not economical for me to try to raise them unless I find a way to make them a summer crop like a lot of people here, and the state due trout. Our winter though is just a couple of months. Then the heat kills them, and the ducks, birds, and catfish clean up.

David - WI
04-05-2012, 03:46 PM
Thanks for the replies.

I understand the pro's & con's of the species (perca flavescens); and we've taken steps in the design of the system to minimize the negatives and (hopefully) capitalize on the positives. We're starting out (relatively) small but it's a "commercial" venture, so if I do screw up there will be a lot more than 12 dead fish... thousands potentially.

Obviously we have some back-up systems and a good water supply; but there are countless things that can go wrong especially at (again, relatively) high stocking densities.

On a happier note, we do expect them to reach "market size" in less than a year without trying to mate, so that's a plus.

I appreciate the help; I'm just not sure how much info I can share.

foodchain
04-06-2012, 04:23 AM
They won't reach market size that fast...period. If you need to have your crop make it to market at one year, you need to change species. This is an awesome fish, but it will simply take too long to grow. A pilot program is what you need first to show you the challenges and build your experience.
But again, if you have to have a return in one year, this isn't the fish you want. Growth rate and feed conversion simply aren't high enough.
Good luck.

keith_r
04-06-2012, 05:38 AM
sorry fc, but most of the yp i purchased last february at 3" are market size after 1 year, and i didn't even have them on a "strict" feeding schedule.. cool water temps, and regular feeding, and they will grow..

you've been in the texas heat too long! :mrgreen:

i've had to travel to laredo for several work trips, the worst trip was the middle of summer, hell is an understatement.. i'm not used to not being able to even touch my car, let alone have to wait 10 minutes till it's no longer a convection oven

starting the labor on my system expansion this weekend if i can get my car fixed..

i don't think the trout are going to work out this year, so i'll probably be getting a couple hundred yp, and will be able to show you

foodchain
04-06-2012, 09:01 AM
Well, depends on what your market size is? If your market is for breeding, you might be right. But
MY experience has been they don't reach a good edible, fillet size worth justifying the labor costs, etc in that short of a time period.
But I don't know it all.....IF you can do it, good for you. Not many can.
There's easier species to work with though, that grow faster and fillet out bigger. And since it's measured by the lbs...that's something to take into thought. IF though you are marketing towards more of a stocker type program than "market size" is whatever your buyer/contract wants.

So I suppose it's relative. In channel cats for instance, eating market is usually about 3 lbs. And the processing places want them to be fairly uniform/graded. So your not delivering 1 ton of mixed sizes. IF they are meant to be forage fish, market size is what.....2-3"? So it's relative to what market he's reaching for...and I don't know what that is.

This all goes back the originals posts....we don't have enough information to accurately give advice as we don't know what the end result is. I have stated my experiences with YP. I for one love them, but wrote them off as a commercially viable aquaculture species about 15 years ago for these reasons.

You are right.....TX is not forgiving when it comes to the heat. I have been all over this world, and can't recall a place that was consistantly as harsh as the climate is here. Yet we have some of the best wildlife, and diverse agriculture I have seen anywhere. TX in my experience is simple....get tough, or die.

David - WI
04-07-2012, 08:25 AM
This all goes back the originals posts....we don't have enough information to accurately give advice as we don't know what the end result is. I have stated my experiences with YP. I for one love them, but wrote them off as a commercially viable aquaculture species about 15 years ago for these reasons.
True, but to be fair, I only asked for advice about purchasing them. (http://www.advancecarmover.com) I think we've solved that now, but I appreciate the input.