Aquaponic Armageddon!

[bsfman]

File this one onder the "lessons learned" category!

My largest of 3 aquaponics systems was a roughly 700 gallon job that I built on the fly doing the "learn as you go" thing...

Originally, it was a floating raft system with four 30 gallon 2X3 foot by 8" deep mortar tubs as grow beds. I suspended the grow beds on a 2X4 frame resting on top of 4 concrete block pilings stacked 40" high. Since the wading pool fish tank was situated on a slight slope, I used shims on top of the block pilings to level the growbed frame.

Six weeks ago, I converted the floating rafts to gravel grow beds with pea gravel media. It was extremely heavy, but rock solid and level. The tomatos and cucumbers I planted in it literally exploded with growth. Some of the tomato vines were literally an inch in diameter and like 7 feet long! I had about 150 tilapia in it that had grown from 3/4" to 10 inches in length over a 7 month period. During the winter, I enclosed the system in a greenhouse tent - mainly to keep the water warm during our south Florida winter that occasionally saw temps as low as the high 30's - low 40's. Condensation in the greenhouse dripped down the sides and kept the soil surrounding the fish tank fairly moist.

A few days ago, I noticed overflow from some of my grow beds - a combination of bulging sides of the plastic mortar tubs and roots clogging the gravel screens in my auto-siphons had caused the problem. About 300 gallons had overflowed during the night before I discovered the problem and corrected it.

Yesterday, I removed the greenhouse. The ground surrounding the fish tank was extremely muddy from the condensation and previous overflow, but the system was running smoothly and all the grow bed leaks had been fixed.

This morning at 7:30 I was enjoying my morning coffee and watching the weather forecast when I heard a weird noise. It sounded suspiciously like somebody dumping a load of gravel into a puddle - which is exactly what it was!

I rushed outside to find that the entire growbed rack had dumped over onto the side of the fish tank - releasing about 650 of the 700 gallons in the system. Tilapia were flopping all over the back yard in puddles! Evidently the muddy soil had enabled one of the pilings to sink into the mud enough to shift the balance and dump the entire grow bed frame.

I enlisted my wife's help and we quickly grabbed thrashing tilapia and transported them with buckets to my 350 gallon system which is now HEAVILY overstocked! About 15 tilapia were goners and they went into a bucket of ice awaiting the filet knife for this afternoon's fish fry.

Looks like I'll be shoveling gravel out of the lawn for the next couple of days. The inflatable ring atop the Intrex pool is shot, but I was able to put several hundred gallons back into it so that I can relocate some of the tilapia temporarily while I enter re-build mode. My bio-filter will have to suffice to keep them alive until then.

I hated losing those beautiful cucumber and tomato plants, but what the hell - you gotta learn from your mistakes, right? At least I salvaged most of the tilapia. The new system will be relocated with the fish tank on more level ground with lined plywood growbeds suspended on a frame mounted on poured concrete (and carefully leveled) footers. I'll incorporate lessons learned into a much better and more carefully planned system. Live and learn!

[commander]

ACK! Tough way to learn. But, I too have had my own education by trial. Wish I was close enough to help.

[Jeff]

Oh no! I totally can imagine the horror you must have felt to see this! At least you're going to eat a nice fishy lunch today!

[urbanfarmer]

I'm sorry for your loss.

This happened to us in Nicaragua when we tried to explain to the workers to put some cement blocks directly underneath the legs and they didn't. It washed out when it rained. Soil and running water do not make a good foothold!

At least you get to eat out of it :-)

[sdanchenko]

Yeah, my stand folded as well (and dumping water and hydroton on the floor in basement) and I had to rebuild it. No fish lost, but all my tomatoes and peppers are gone. Now I have lettuce and reddish seedlings only. And it happens on Sunday evening when all nearby stores are closed ;) Good adrenalin shot.

[davidstcldfl]

Major bummer bsfman.... :cry:
It's nice to dig in our soil, aka 'sand'....but it doesn't like to support anything.... :roll: My buddy and I installed 'red neck' footers....we just placed blocks end to end at ground level... and filled them with some concrete. It was to support the weight of IBC's with 250 gals/1870 lbs of water.
http://i931.photobucket.com/albums/ad157/davidstcldfl/IBCbaseAug511.jpg

Sounds like a bummer for you too sdanchenko... :( One of the rules of the universe...the store is closed when you really need them... :roll:

[Eleven11]

Wow, horror of horrors. It's good that you were home at the time. I almost had something similar happen when setting up my system. The totes couldn't handle the outward force of the water and expanded clay and bulged and sagged really bad. I had to make supports for the sides using electrical EMT conduit.

All the best for a quick recovery.

[bsfman]

The fish are now relocated to a new 650 gallon wading pool with a 44 gallon mechanical/biofilter filled with old media. That'll buy me some time to build new grow beds. All told, I lost about 30 fish - 15 due to the catastrophe itself, and 15 more that committed suicide by jumping out of their temporary quarters later that same day.

[bsfman]

Major bummer bsfman.... :cry:
It's nice to dig in our soil, aka 'sand'....but it doesn't like to support anything.... :roll: My buddy and I installed 'red neck' footers....we just placed blocks end to end at ground level... and filled them with some concrete. It was to support the weight of IBC's with 250 gals/1870 lbs of water.


I stole a page from your book, David. I leveled "red neck footers" yesterday, drove 24" long rebar through the centers, and cememted them in this morning.

Gonna build a 2'X8'X12" deep grow bed framed up using 4X4 treated stringers with six 4X4 uprights for support. Everything will be cross braced. Filled with pea gravel and water, it'll weigh about a ton and an eighth, so support is crucial. Eventually, I'll be adding a second grow bed of the same size, but I want to finish this one first so as to incorporate lessons learned in building the second one.

Anybody have suggestions for bell siphon outlet size? I'm thinking 1". The grow bed will be about 120 gallons, so filled with gravel, I'll be draining maybe 50 gallons of water each cycle after displacement by the gravel.

[davidstcldfl]

I leveled "red neck footers" yesterday, drove 24" long rebar through the centers, and cememted them in this morning.
Oh wow....you did 'fancy' red neck footers with rebar.... :lol:

I built 4' x 8' x 12" grow beds....and I installed 1" drains. It actually worked pretty well. Don't remember the exact drain time, it was in the upper range, but it was acceptable.
Per Affnan...I did add a 1 1/2" X 1" reducing coupling to the top of the stand pipe. Without it and the Bernoulli effect, I wouldn't of gotten the speed of the drain time.

Bsfman.....You may be able to/should be able to, use a 3/4 inch stand pipe....like you said, your 'total volume' of the bed is approx 120 gals.
I agree, you may only be drainning, as little as 40 gallons of water.

[bsfman]

I leveled "red neck footers" yesterday, drove 24" long rebar through the centers, and cememted them in this morning.
Oh wow....you did 'fancy' red neck footers with rebar.... :lol:

I built 4' x 8' x 12" grow beds....and I installed 1" drains. It actually worked pretty well. Don't remember the exact drain time, it was in the upper range, but it was acceptable.
Per Affnan...I did add a 1 1/2" X 1" reducing coupling to the top of the stand pipe. Without it and the Bernoulli effect, I wouldn't of gotten the speed of the drain time.

Bsfman.....You may be able to/should be able to, use a 3/4 inch stand pipe....like you said, your 'total volume' of the bed is approx 120 gals.
I agree, you may only be drainning, as little as 40 gallons of water.

So you think a 3/4" stand pipe with 1" reducer and 1 1/2" bell would do the trick?

[davidstcldfl]

So you think a 3/4" stand pipe with 1" reducer and 1 1/2" bell would do the trick?
This opinion is being given 'as' I start my morning coffee... :P ....I don't think a 1"x3/4" reducer will fit inside a 1 1/2" bell... 'If' it does...it will be a pretty tight fit, not enough room for good water flow. (Try a 'test' fit at the store)
I'd consider using a 2" bell....with a vent tube/snorkle tube, to help break the flow easier.
HD sells thin wall, 4" drain pipe....I've used it for gravel gaurds.( it comes with, or with out holes in it, it's slightly off white-'very light' tan color) It's cheaper then schdl 40 and has a bigger ID...I think a 10' stick is around 10 bucks.

Looking forward to some pictures of your new set up bsfman... :D

just a 'fun' side note...
I mentioned at another site, about getting a siphon to 'break'....to a lady from Sweden...she didn't understand, why I wanted her to destroy her bell siphon.. :?
I looked up 'break'...I didn't realize how many different ways it could be used. I think I saw around 30 different ways to use the word... :o
I've been using english all my life ...and I'm still trying to figure it out... :lol:

[bsfman]

So you think a 3/4" stand pipe with 1" reducer and 1 1/2" bell would do the trick?
This opinion is being given 'as' I start my morning coffee... :P ....I don't think a 1"x3/4" reducer will fit inside a 1 1/2" bell... 'If' it does...it will be a pretty tight fit, not enough room for good water flow. (Try a 'test' fit at the store)
I'd consider using a 2" bell....with a vent tube/snorkle tube, to help break the flow easier.
HD sells thin wall, 4" drain pipe....I've used it for gravel gaurds.( it comes with, or with out holes in it, it's slightly off white-'very light' tan color) It's cheaper then schdl 40 and has a bigger ID...I think a 10' stick is around 10 bucks.

Looking forward to some pictures of your new set up bsfman... :D



Doh! <smacking palm on forehead> Yeah, you're right about that! I wasn't allowing for sidewall thickness. :oops:

I used the 4" drainpipe as gravel guards in my other two systems. I also used it in my strawberry towers. Good stuff and works well. I'll be using it again.

I was using 4 separate 1/2" standpipes on the bell siphons in 4 grow beds in my armageddon system.
The beds were 2'x3'x8"deep and the 1/2" was perfectly adequate for the smaller beds. I also used 1" standpipes on my small system with the same size growbeds - kind of an experiment. Definitely overkill, but it works fine - just a really fast cycle time (which the plants sure don't seem to mind!). I think the 1" will be just about right on the 16 cubic foot grow beds. I was going to try "Affnan Siphons" on the new system, but so far have not been able to find the type reducers he uses. All the local box stores carry are bushing reducers. Looks like I'll be going with the traditional bell siphons without reducers like I've used before.

Got the two sides of my GB stand finished today. Primed and painted one and primed the other. I'll finish up painting tomorrow then install cross ties and braces between the two sides. Friday the construction and painting of the GB box is on the schedule, with liner and bell siphon installation and "test firing" on Saturday. I took some pics, but will have to resize and upload them before I can post them. Maybe later tonight if I don't fall asleep in my chair!

[bsfman]

Let's see if I can get this photobucket slide show to work...

http://s283.photobucket.com/albums/kk306/tarvus33991/aquaponics/th_P4090037.jpg (http://s283.photobucket.com/albums/kk306/tarvus33991/aquaponics/?action=view&current=1198a823.pbw)

[davidstcldfl]

Looking nice and neat bsfman... :D

I was going to try "Affnan Siphons" on the new system, but so far have not been able to find the type reducers he uses. All the local box stores carry are bushing reducers. Looks like I'll be going with the traditional bell siphons without reducers like I've used before.
You might have to go to a real hardware store...'?'
They have them at Flexpvc....
http://flexpvc.com/cart/agora.cgi?cart_ ... s-Reducing (http://flexpvc.com/cart/agora.cgi?cart_id=5846661.27867&product=PVC-Couples-Reducing)
The cost and postage add up fast, but they did get them sent pretty quick when my buddy ordered some.

Or...
I'm going to try this....use the 2 part plumber epoxy to make more of a bell shape 'inside' the reducing couplings.
I want a 1 " x 1/2" bell reducer...so I'll put two reducing couplings together. The drawing isn't that great, but it'll give you the idea...
(in the drawing, the 3/4x 1/2 is a bushing..the 1x3/4 is a reducing coupling. 2 couplings can be used, if a very short section of pipe is used between them)

http://i931.photobucket.com/albums/ad157/davidstcldfl/homemadebellreducer.jpg

[keith_r]

i experimented a little bit with a reducing bushing and it worked ok..
didn't someone here heat their standpipe and just put a bell in it?

[bsfman]

i experimented a little bit with a reducing bushing and it worked ok..
didn't someone here heat their standpipe and just put a bell in it?

Now THAT'S a great idea, Keith! I have a heat gun and certainly possess the skill to aquire an empty beer bottle (which would seem to be the perfect mandrel for forming a bell shape when inserted neck first into a section of heat-softened PCV pipe!)

[commander]

THis is very intriguing as I am about to build out my second system using a couple of IBC totes.

[keith_r]

i was thinking a beer bottle would probably be good as well.. you may have to put some "slits" in the end of the pipe, but you could probably melt a patch into the slits..

[bsfman]

More pics from today's progress. Click thumbnail to view slideshow...

Completed assembly of my new aquaponic grow bed stand today. This has been a 4 day project so far. I was happy it came out square and level. That doesn't always happen when I build stuff. I still have a bit of painting to finish up.

I massively over-engineered this stand, but didn't want another collapse when the grow bed is filled with over a ton of pea gravel. This stand is rock steady and SOLID! Looks like a railroad trestle!

I'll finish the grow bed assembly and build the auto-siphon tomorrow, the test drive, load with gravel, and plumb into the system Saturday.

http://s283.photobucket.com/albums/kk306/tarvus33991/aquaponics/th_P4120047.jpg (http://s283.photobucket.com/albums/kk306/tarvus33991/aquaponics/?action=view&current=3a462d93.pbw)

[bsfman]

i was thinking a beer bottle would probably be good as well.. you may have to put some "slits" in the end of the pipe, but you could probably melt a patch into the slits..


Didn't need to make the slits, Keith. It worked like a charm - took less than three minutes! I used the flared 1" standpipe in a 2" bell, so I didn't make the flare very wide (had to leave a little wiggle room for the water to pass by the flare) I could have easily made it wider than I did though. Here's a couple of pics...

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk306/tarvus33991/aquaponics/P4130072.jpg
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk306/tarvus33991/aquaponics/P4130073.jpg

In fact, I used the same beer bottle to widen the ends of the 1" hoses that came with the Intex pool so that I could clamp them on the outside of 1" PVC pipe. That worked like a charm too!:)

[bsfman]

Finished building the growbed yesterday, added the liner, and filled with pea gravel media salvaged from the armageddon system. Had to add 20 more bags of gravel today to fill it entirely. The old media was clean, so I packed it around the siphon and added 20 bags of unwashed gravel. The old media provided enough filtration that the dirt and dust from the new media never clouded the water in the fish tank.

I spent a LOT of time diddling around with the bell siphon today. This was the 7th bell-siphon I have built and it was by far the most difficult of them all to get tuned. I finally got it working just about perfectly with an almost exact 15 minute cycle time. By my ciphering, I am inputting water to the GB at 459 gph and dumping it out the siphon when it activated at 700 gph. Averaging 5:13 min fill time and 9:47 min drain time. That fill rate is fast enough that I had difficulty getting the siphon to break. I learned a lot about siphon tuning (only took me 6 prototypes today to figure it out!) The big lesson learned: the smaller the headspace between the top of the standpipe and the bell, the faster the siphon start and the slower the break. Conversely, the GREATER the headspace, the slower the siphon start and the quicker the siphon break. A standpipe of 1 1/2" would have been easier to tune at the flow rate I wanted to use. I also could have throttled down the pump outflow, but wanted a faster system water turnover so I tried to avoid doing that. The combination of a 5" headspace in the bell and a 1/2" nylon tube as a siphon break assist solved the problem.

I forgot to include the GB end caps in computing the length of my liner trim, so I have big gaps at the corners. That's cosmetic and I can address it later on. I still have to do the permanent input plumbing attachments also. Right now my fill pipe is laid across the top of the GB and held in place by a couple of pieces of 2X4 trim. There is a lot of painting yet to be done as well. But hey! I'm up and running with a stand build like a brick house, a media filled growbed and a near perfect siphon cycle time! I'm a tired, but happy camper! :D

Here's a slideshow of the last couple of days work...

http://s283.photobucket.com/albums/kk306/tarvus33991/aquaponics/th_P4130066.jpg (http://s283.photobucket.com/albums/kk306/tarvus33991/aquaponics/?action=view&current=1a945744.pbw)

[urbanfarmer]

What genius!

How hot is that gun? I wonder if boiling water would be adequate?

[bsfman]

What genius!

How hot is that gun? I wonder if boiling water would be adequate?

I doubt boiling water would be hot enough, but you could CAREFULLY use a propane torch to soften the PVC - just keep the flame a bit away so the distant heat, not the flame, heats the PVC. The PVC will scorch easily. I've done this with a torch making PVC strawberry towers, but the heat gun is easier and less likely to singe the PVC.

Edited addition: I bet you could "toast" the PVC over a charcoal grill (like toasting marshmallows) to get it hot enough to soften. Wear gloves!

[davidstcldfl]

Looking good bsfman... :)

I noticed you had rolled your discharge 90 some, just before the water goes into the fish tank.
I tried something I saw over at Affnan's....add a section of pvc that goes straight down into the water, which has holes drilled in the length of it. It add extra air, and seemed to make it more quiet too, if that is a concern.
http://affnan-aquaponics.blogspot.com/2 ... iphon.html (http://affnan-aquaponics.blogspot.com/2010/08/aeration-trying-to-get-most-from-siphon.html)

@UF...I thought you bought an industrial type heat gun at harbor frieght some time back, when they were on sale...?

[urbanfarmer]

OH YEA! It was a plastic welder. I could try it. The air it shoots out is in a very thin stream, maybe... I think the nozzle is largest without any adapters on it... now just to find it...

I can't believe you remembered that and I didn't... LOL, this forum has its benefits :lol:

[davidstcldfl]

I'm just starting my coffee...so I'm surprised too.... :lol:
I didn't remeber you bought a pvc welder, but your right it should work... :)

[bsfman]

Put the finishing touches on the armageddon system rebuild yesterday. The hardest part was painting the stand supports. I had to crawl underneath to reach all the spots I had previously primed but not painted. Tight cramped quarters under there and I acutally got stuck for about 5 minutes before I could extricate myself!

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk306/tarvus33991/aquaponics/P4190111.jpg

I also permanently attached the input plumbing using shims and perfed steel tape...

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk306/tarvus33991/aquaponics/P4200119.jpg

I cheated a bit and bought some bell peppers and tomato plants rather than starting from seed. I did cut some suckers off my existing tomatos and rooted them too. Butternut squash and cucumbers were seeded. I should see sprouts from them next week...

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk306/tarvus33991/aquaponics/P4190116.jpg

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk306/tarvus33991/aquaponics/P4190113.jpg

This pic shows the growbed, the biofilter and fish tank. The small pool, strawberry towers and plants to the left in this photo are part of my mini system.

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk306/tarvus33991/aquaponics/P4190115.jpg

As is typical in my painting endeavors, I seemed to get almost as much paint on me as I did on the GB stand. It hurt like hell scrubbing all that blue paint off my beard and neck in the shower! (I think I accidentally painted my beard while trying to disentangle myself while painting underneath the maze of supports and cross braces!)

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk306/tarvus33991/aquaponics/P4190110.jpg

The growbed is still on an almost exact 15 minute cycle, which makes me happy. I had experienced quite an algae bloom in the fish tank before I got the grow bed built. In two days, the growbed has completely cleared the algae. The old media in the biofilter really helped with cycling. Both ammonia and nitrites are back to zero. Nitrates are about 10ppm.

I learned a few lessons for construction of the matching growbed which I will do later this summer. The main lesson is that all priming and painting of the support structure will be done BEFORE I get every thing assembled!

I am really impressed with using the Intex pools as fish tanks. This one is 8 foot diameter and ran me about 60 bucks from the local Target store. (The 60 bucks included a 500 gph pump which so far is working like a champ!) Each pool has an inlet and outlet and comes with hoses and fittings for the pump. There is a screw-on cap that fits over the outlet to seal it off. I have the outlet sealed off with the cap, and hooked the pump to the inlet where it draws water and pumps up to the growbed. This has given me an idea about modular expansion though. I am considering buying a second pool and hooking the two together via the hoses. The second pool pump would pump from the fish tank to the second pool and a T fitting in the other connecting hose would pump from both pools to the growbed(s). I can use the second pool as a grow out tank for fry to replenish the fish Tilapia I harvest for the table.

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk306/tarvus33991/aquaponics/P4130078.jpg

[wstoltenberg]

Those are some sharp looking growbeds, bsfman. Thanks for sharing your experiences!

[urbanfarmer]

Well, he's a sharp guy! What do you expect? :-)

[davidstcldfl]

It hurt like hell scrubbing all that blue paint off my beard and neck in the shower! (I think I accidentally painted my beard while trying to disentangle myself while painting underneath the maze of supports and cross braces
You could of had a new on-line name ...'Blue Beard'... :P :lol: :lol: :lol:
The setup is 'looking good' bsfman... :D