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vermiman
02-25-2012, 06:32 AM
I'm not trying to create perpetual motion. But I was thinking about placing a waterwheel generator to convert some of the energy of the returning water from the siphon back into electricity. The system that I am thinking about would be powered by a solar panel and battery. It seems like a waterwheel would displace the water a little more and add more O2 to it.

urbanfarmer
02-25-2012, 02:25 PM
I'm not trying to create perpetual motion. But I was thinking about placing a waterwheel generator to convert some of the energy of the returning water from the siphon back into electricity. The system that I am thinking about would be powered by a solar panel and battery. It seems like a waterwheel would displace the water a little more and add more O2 to it.
It adds a lot of O2 to the water.

If you really want to do this you will have to find a DC motor that is rated to run at very, very low RPM. You will have to use gears to get the RPM higher. The amount of energy you capture will be insignificant. You might as well put more money and effort into an extra solar panel! :mrgreen:

vermiman
02-25-2012, 04:00 PM
It adds a lot of O2 to the water.

If you really want to do this you will have to find a DC motor that is rated to run at very, very low RPM. You will have to use gears to get the RPM higher. The amount of energy you capture will be insignificant. You might as well put more money and effort into an extra solar panel! :mrgreen:

I don't plan on spending any money on the motor. First I'll try a printer type stepper motor. If that don't work I'll try to acquire a dc motor out of a treadmill. I know that it takes allot more energy to pump the water up to the growbeds, but I'd like to see how much energy I can capture while the water makes its way back to the aquuarium.

urbanfarmer
02-25-2012, 06:40 PM
It adds a lot of O2 to the water.

If you really want to do this you will have to find a DC motor that is rated to run at very, very low RPM. You will have to use gears to get the RPM higher. The amount of energy you capture will be insignificant. You might as well put more money and effort into an extra solar panel! :mrgreen:

I don't plan on spending any money on the motor. First I'll try a printer type stepper motor. If that don't work I'll try to acquire a dc motor out of a treadmill. I know that it takes allot more energy to pump the water up to the growbeds, but I'd like to see how much energy I can capture while the water makes its way back to the aquuarium.
Why not just use the mechanical energy to move water rather than convert it from mechanical to electric and back to mechanical. What little energy you capture will be lost to efficiency as well. Maybe as much as 50% will be lost.

Unless your system is big, a treadmill motor will take too much to return energy. You will have to control it to so that you get the right voltage, but that might not be so bad in a system where the flow is constant. A power drill motor might be perfect if you're looking for a smaller motor. Good luck!

Post lots of pictures please! :-)

vermiman
02-25-2012, 07:25 PM
Why not just use the mechanical energy to move water rather than convert it from mechanical to electric and back to mechanical. What little energy you capture will be lost to efficiency as well. Maybe as much as 50% will be lost.

Unless your system is big, a treadmill motor will take too much to return energy. You will have to control it to so that you get the right voltage, but that might not be so bad in a system where the flow is constant. A power drill motor might be perfect if you're looking for a smaller motor. Good luck!

Post lots of pictures please! :-)

What if I use the little power that I acquire to power a little DC air pump to aerate the aquarium a little more? Or maybe to aerate the biofilter.

urbanfarmer
02-26-2012, 10:30 AM
Why not just use the mechanical energy to move water rather than convert it from mechanical to electric and back to mechanical. What little energy you capture will be lost to efficiency as well. Maybe as much as 50% will be lost.

Unless your system is big, a treadmill motor will take too much to return energy. You will have to control it to so that you get the right voltage, but that might not be so bad in a system where the flow is constant. A power drill motor might be perfect if you're looking for a smaller motor. Good luck!

Post lots of pictures please! :-)

What if I use the little power that I acquire to power a little DC air pump to aerate the aquarium a little more? Or maybe to aerate the biofilter.
I would imagine, with how little power those aquarium aerators take, that this would be feasible. You might even be able to directly power it without a battery because the power flow should be constant (assuming the battery for the water pump doesn't die). This design could be calculated out, but I think it would be more fun for you to slap it together and take some pictures for us! :-)

coledexter1920
03-03-2012, 11:27 PM
Well, you have opened an interesting topic here. I want to know more about your further functionality, how much you are expecting here and in what amount of time you are going to finish it.

vermiman
03-04-2012, 07:31 PM
Well, you have opened an interesting topic here. I want to know more about your further functionality, how much you are expecting here and in what amount of time you are going to finish it.

When I started this thread I was just basically thinking out loud. Right now I have just designed my bell syphon and purchased the river gravel for the growbed. As of now I am lacking a pump to pump the water up to the growbed. Is there anyone here that could give me any suggestion in acquiring a pump for the system?

alex281
03-04-2012, 09:07 PM
Well, you have opened an interesting topic here. I want to know more about your further functionality, how much you are expecting here and in what amount of time you are going to finish it.

When I started this thread I was just basically thinking out loud. Right now I have just designed my bell syphon and purchased the river gravel for the growbed. As of now I am lacking a pump to pump the water up to the growbed. Is there anyone here that could give me any suggestion in acquiring a pump for the system?

I got mine off ebay :D

vermiman
03-04-2012, 09:33 PM
Well, you have opened an interesting topic here. I want to know more about your further functionality, how much you are expecting here and in what amount of time you are going to finish it.

When I started this thread I was just basically thinking out loud. Right now I have just designed my bell syphon and purchased the river gravel for the growbed. As of now I am lacking a pump to pump the water up to the growbed. Is there anyone here that could give me any suggestion in acquiring a pump for the system?

I got mine off ebay :D


Brand and model of pump? Name of seller?

alex281
03-04-2012, 09:36 PM
Well, you have opened an interesting topic here. I want to know more about your further functionality, how much you are expecting here and in what amount of time you are going to finish it.

When I started this thread I was just basically thinking out loud. Right now I have just designed my bell syphon and purchased the river gravel for the growbed. As of now I am lacking a pump to pump the water up to the growbed. Is there anyone here that could give me any suggestion in acquiring a pump for the system?

I got mine off ebay :D


Brand and model of pump? Name of seller?

All i remember was searching for (amount i needed)gph submersible pump and bought the cheapest one with fastest shipping.it was from some hydro store.

foodchain
03-05-2012, 05:03 AM
I have been working on something all these lines. A hydrogenterator. What I have found is that in an Ebb/flow system the flow rate isn't constant enough to generate enough power. I am still working on one for my waterfall that runs constant in the backyard, but don't have anything conclusive yet. There's several DIY versions on Youtube, and many of those videos break down how to adjust the magnets to maximize the return. I haven't determined a way to make back as much energy as the whole system uses, but the generator should reduce the usage.

I haven't found a solar cell yet that was worth the money. They suck. If you find one that actaully produces enough juice to justify the expense/labor please let me know.

Hydro will work 24 hours a day. Solar works more like 10 hours if you in the south in summer and have no trees or onstructions.
Good luck.

bsfman
03-05-2012, 07:33 AM
I haven't determined a way to make back as much energy as the whole system uses, but the generator should reduce the usage.

There is no such thing as 100 percent efficiency in any mechanical system, so nobody will ever be able to recover as much energy as the system uses. Friction loss, internal inertia in the generator, paddle wheel friction and inefficiency, and water from the waterfall that misses hitting the paddlewheel blades will all contribute to efficiency loss. I would guess that if you are able to recover even 10 percent of the energy input, you are doing remarkably well. The question then becomes how long a payback period will it take to recover the cost of materials, time and effort in the construction to justify undertaking the project to begin with. Sounds like a fun experiment though! :)

foodchain
03-06-2012, 04:46 AM
Well that's the next step I am working on. Been working and reworking a hydro design for sometime, but I have run into some problems that are outside of my level of expertise.
Premade gens are expensive, running in the ball park of 5k.
But the components to build them are less than $300 as best I can tell. Not believing everything I read, I am having problems pinning down the exact amount of wire to magnet ratio.

Then my car alternator needed changed, and I got an idea.....probably a bad one, but I am kicking it around on paper. The car alternator works as I understand it by a magnet passing around the coils, driven by the fan belt. Pretty basic, magnet generates a feild against the wires creating electricity, which in turn charges the battery on the car.

So, why wouldn't that work on the waterfall? If you say cuz it's DC, you need swatted with a newspaper. You can either buy a DC pump, or give up some of the generated juice to pass through a converter.
There's many other ways to deal with that problem. I am looking for something a little more advanced.
I am sure this is not the most effecient way, but it would give a starting point to substantiating the relationship between the gap between the wires and magnet and elec. production. There's an optimal gap here in relation to the amount of elec. produced. Where that is, will depend on the amount/strength of magnet and the conductivity of the wire coils.

foodchain
03-06-2012, 04:48 AM
Does anyone know about this? Or understand it?
Or am I talking out my 4th point of contact?

foodchain
03-06-2012, 05:35 AM
Everyone likes pics. This is the best layout I have found for showing the wire/magnet concept.

http://www.otherpower.com/scotthydro1.html

Not quite the same layout as I am planning, but we are talking about the generator portion.

commander
03-06-2012, 06:30 AM
I dont know if I am committing a vile sin, but this link isn't related to aquaponics. This is a group on yahoo that I follow and they probably have all the answers to your questions. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/12VDC_Power/