View Full Version : what kind of salt should I add to my AP?
germanbull
01-25-2012, 02:56 PM
I looked at some bags of salt that don't say what the chemical makeup is; some say they are potassium chloride. Is salt meant for water softeners OK? Morton pool salt?
urbanfarmer
01-25-2012, 04:35 PM
Why are you adding salt? Table salt is sodium chloride.
foodchain
01-26-2012, 04:31 AM
This is a loaded question UF and I have gone rounds on already.
Salt can do a great many things....some good and some bad. What is it you are trying to achieve? What's the desired result? I have used a lot of salts, some as aid, some to treat, and some to disinfect.
In referance UF to our previous thread on this, I am testing both salts currently to guage the results. Nothing really interesting to report as of yet. Both swimming around like nothing is different. In consulting with my chemistry proff I had in college, he confirms your data (this is a good thing). Fisheries Biologist I know confirms your thoughts on using the wrong salt too. So I am diving deeper into this. So far, more than a month into tests and I am not detecting any problems. Doesn't mean there aren't any...I just haven't found them yet.
WARNING: I am not advocating anyone to just dump salt into their system. Educate yourself with your own research. That's what I am doing, and if it goes bad, you can only blame yourself. But if it goes great, you only reward yourself. :)
Best of luck.
germanbull
01-26-2012, 08:34 AM
I see a few white spots on my goldfish. I think it could be fish ich. I read that salting the water may relieve stress on the fish and help their immune system. I want to try that as a minimum.
urbanfarmer
01-26-2012, 10:25 AM
I see a few white spots on my goldfish. I think it could be fish ich. I read that salting the water may relieve stress on the fish and help their immune system. I want to try that as a minimum.
If it is ich, you can just raise the temperature over 85 Fahrenheit for the life cycle of the parasite and it will be dead and gone.
keith_r
01-26-2012, 11:59 AM
i use water softener salt and avoid "table salt"
pool salt is inexpensive and is ok as well..
aquarium salt (even when it's the same stuff as pool salt) will cost more
some plants will suffer at 3ppt, but most will be ok
a hospital tank that you can salt higher is nice to have
foodchain
01-26-2012, 12:11 PM
a hospital tank is nice....but...
IF it's ich, removing the fish for treatment won't solve the problem as the ich lives in the water column, and subrates as well.
IF no plants are present, raise temp to speed cycle of ich, add salt and wait. Then do large water change, and repeat. After about 4 days, I usually don't have any problems left.
Look to the cause. Ich rarely goes after happy healthy fish. But loves stressed ones in my experience....unless I added a new fish without quarantine first.
davidstcldfl
01-26-2012, 06:58 PM
Just my 2 cents....in my home system I used sea salt, at a rate of a < 1/2 ppt. I don't know if the 'extra' minerals, sea salt is supposed to have, helped any ...but my plants seemed to really grow well and I never had any sick fish.
urbanfarmer
01-26-2012, 09:02 PM
Just my 2 cents....in my home system I used sea salt, at a rate of a < 1/2 ppt. I don't know if the 'extra' minerals, sea salt is supposed to have, helped any ...but my plants seemed to really grow well and I never had any sick fish.
Yes, common table salt contains sodium and the plants will take that in place of potassium, which is what they are commonly most deficient in, in an aquaponic system. They will also appear more succulent.
When people talk about adding salt to a tank, they are talking about sodium chloride or common table salt. I believe keith is making reference to additives found in different salt products, but the "salt" part of anything used is sodium chloride.
germanbull
01-26-2012, 11:15 PM
thanks for the replies. This is an outdoor system with about 500 gallons of water at 55 deg F. I wouldn't be able to heat it to 85. The temp was down to 47 several days ago, but our nights haven't been as cold lately.
I read on wiki that the parasite can only survive about 2 days without a host. I'd rather not try to remove the goldfish for a few days. I'll add some salt and keep an eye on them. They don't appear stressed - just noticed the white spots on a few.
foodchain
01-27-2012, 04:28 AM
The cold is the stresser more than likely. Use the salt, then large water change, and salt again.
Ich will be gone in a few days. Cheaper than over the counter treatments. Being goldfish though, I would add more than 4 ppt just do it slowly. You can google salt treatments for Ich and other versions of that phrase and see what others have done.
Faster you get after it, the better off you will be.
aquaarche
01-28-2012, 04:25 AM
don't use salts with Iodine. Iodine kills off all the bacteria
foodchain
01-28-2012, 05:50 AM
How does that work in marine systems then? Iodine has to be added there, even when using natural sea salt. Lugol's iodine at one drop per 80 gallons is a common recomendation.
In marine systems bacteria is so much more crucial...in volume, as the bioload seems to be more intense.
keith_r
01-28-2012, 08:46 AM
with crayfish you might need to add iodine.. i've actually found quite a few things places that recommended this if it looked like the crays were having trouble molting.. add at half the recommended dosage for marine aquariums.. something like a teaspoon for 50 gallons (this isn't regular "iodine" that you get at the drugstore, it's what i got at a marine aquarium store, and i think is labeled iodide-i'll check it later)
foodchain
01-28-2012, 09:22 AM
Okay...that's need for most of your inverts that shed or molt as it helps to soften the carapass.
IF they can't shed it they die.
aquaarche
02-04-2012, 03:47 AM
Iodine is found naturally in ocean water and is needed in salt water tanks.
when you start adding large amounts of table salt to a system the Iodine exceeds the natural levels and will begin to destroy bacteria. So if your trying to kill ick or other diseases with Iodized table salt you will have to use volumes above what your bacteria can endure.
badflash
02-04-2012, 11:18 AM
Be very carefull if you have plants in your system. It doesn't take much salt to kill most plants unless they are salt tolerant. Iodine is not found naturally in fresh water bodies around the world, with the exception of a few of the rift lakes in Africa. No fresh water fish or crayfish requires iodine. It may not hurt, but it doesn't help. I've never used it.
If you have ich, heat alone won't kill it without killing the fish too. Heat will speed up the life cycle which allows the salt or other chemicals to act on the swimming portion of the life cycle. The level of salt needed for treatment is lethal to almost all plants you may want to grow. The fish should all be removed to a hospital tank to be treated. The ich in the aquaponic setup will die without a host in a few weeks. Be aware that many chemical treatments will make plants unfit to eat.
Here is a really good article on ich:
http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com ... m_Ich.html (http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Ich.html)
foodchain
02-06-2012, 04:21 AM
It's well documented that Iodine assists in the sheding of the carapas. Iodine helps to soften this exoskeleon allowing it to be shed. If you don't add iodine, it can be difficult for the creature to shed, leading to death.
Even my prawns get iodine added. It's not accurate to say it doesn't help and not to use it. However it is not required to be used....I started with mud crays as a kid and never used iodine but as an adult have found many uses for it. One should use it with caution and understanding of what they are doing first, before adding anything to an AP system.
aquaarche
02-06-2012, 05:24 AM
It's well documented that Iodine assists in the sheding of the carapas. Iodine helps to soften this exoskeleon allowing it to be shed. If you don't add iodine, it can be difficult for the creature to shed, leading to death.
Even my prawns get iodine added. It's not accurate to say it doesn't help and not to use it. However it is not required to be used....I started with mud crays as a kid and never used iodine but as an adult have found many uses for it. One should use it with caution and understanding of what they are doing first, before adding anything to an AP system.
Prawns in nature are exposed to brackish water that is were both fresh and salt water mix along the shore where prawns live during mating seasons and hatch and grow and eventually travel up fresh water streams but return to the deeper water and the oceans as they enlarge and mature, and then back to the brackish water to mate. their cycle of life
foodchain
02-06-2012, 09:16 AM
Hmmm.
We are probably talking about two different prawns then. The ones I have only go to brackish water to mate/breed. They then travel back upstream. Most growth and shedding occurs in freshwater. Which is why I add the iodine. I purchase them as post larval/juevies and grow out in fresh. There's no contact with mine with any brackish or marine. Now, the farm I get them from breeds them in brackish....but mine never see it. But since most of the growth/shedding occurs during the 4 month grow out, I have to add the iodine or risk trapped prawns. Its a production issue.
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