Hello from Fair Lawn, NJ

[sdanchenko]

Hello to everyone.

This forum is a real help in getting started with Aquaponic. My system is almost done and ready for fish.

My plans are to grow Trout, Bell pepper, Tomato. I have three 50 Gal tanks (Rubbermade) for fish (prefer one bigger tank, but have to use what I have for now), 6 boxes to form 4'x4' growbed for now and one 400w HID lamp. Growbed is in a grow tent ;) The whole system is in a basement :)

I have plans (and already got most parts) to extend system with 4 PVC pipes for strawberry, salad, basil and other small plants.

Would appreciate any help. Is there any one close to zip code 07410?

Going to post pictures later.

[davidstcldfl]

Hi sdanchenko, welcome to the forum... :D

[sdanchenko]

This is my current setup:
[attachment=4:1ojbne10]100_1172.JPG[/attachment:1ojbne10]
Fish Tank, Water and Air pumps
[attachment=3:1ojbne10]100_1173.JPG[/attachment:1ojbne10]
Need to wash more Hydroton
[attachment=2:1ojbne10]100_1174.JPG[/attachment:1ojbne10]
400W Metall Hallide Lamp
[attachment=1:1ojbne10]100_1175.JPG[/attachment:1ojbne10]
Pipes fitting
[attachment=0:1ojbne10]100_1176.JPG[/attachment:1ojbne10]

[sdanchenko]

[attachment=1:3jjtb1ft]100_1177.JPG[/attachment:3jjtb1ft]

Materials for extending:
[attachment=0:3jjtb1ft]100_1178.JPG[/attachment:3jjtb1ft]

[Oliver]

Greetings and welcome to the forum.

I believe it takes about two years to grow out trout. Therefore, your system won't be fully mature until then. It really requires a fully mature system producing lots of nitrates to grow flowering plants like tomatoes and peppers. Even then, it my be a challenge to grow 16 square feet of flowering plants with your system, all depending on your fish density and the amount of waste produced and processed by your bio-filters.

Also, trout are sensitive to water conditions and not a good choice for an Aquaponic newbie. Producing high nitrates generally requires water that has a constant higher level of ammonia and nitrites that are being converted to maintain the nitrate level as the flowering plants remove the nitrates from the water and this may not be conducive to maintaining healthy trout.

Go with leafy greens for the first year and then slowly add in one or two flowering plants over time when the nitrate level is well over 40 ppm. Keep a close watch on your nitrates as they flower.

If you plan on breeding and brooding your fish, then multiple cross linked tanks are preferred.

In order to get an ample Daily Light Index (DLI), which is the total light received in a 24 hour period, 400 watts of HID operating 12 to 18 hours a day is good for about one square meter (10.76 sq ft) when growing leafy greens (Halide) but not enough for flowering plants (Halide during growth and HPS during flowering).

On the positive side, your fish tank to grow bed volume (assuming 12 inch deep grow beds) is good and should work for you.

Oliver

[sdanchenko]

Greetings and welcome to the forum.

I believe it takes about two years to grow out trout. Therefore, your system won't be fully mature until then. It really requires a fully mature system producing lots of nitrates to grow flowering plants like tomatoes and peppers. Even then, it my be a challenge to grow 16 square feet of flowering plants with your system, all depending on your fish density and the amount of waste produced and processed by your bio-filters.

Also, trout are sensitive to water conditions and not a good choice for an Aquaponic newbie. Producing high nitrates generally requires water that has a constant higher level of ammonia and nitrites that are being converted to maintain the nitrate level as the flowering plants remove the nitrates from the water and this may not be conducive to maintaining healthy trout.

Go with leafy greens for the first year and then slowly add in one or two flowering plants over time when the nitrate level is well over 40 ppm. Keep a close watch on your nitrates as they flower.

If you plan on breeding and brooding your fish, then multiple cross linked tanks are preferred.

In order to get an ample Daily Light Index (DLI), which is the total light received in a 24 hour period, 400 watts of HID operating 12 to 18 hours a day is good for about one square meter (10.76 sq ft) when growing leafy greens (Halide) but not enough for flowering plants (Halide during growth and HPS during flowering).

On the positive side, your fish tank to grow bed volume (assuming 12 inch deep grow beds) is good and should work for you.

Oliver

Thank you Oliver for reply.

I also see that 400W is not enough. What about 600W or adding 125w flourescent lamp?

As far as growing tomatoes and pepper, yeah I got kinda overoptimistic. They will not fit into growing tent too as they will be too tall. What I gonna do with that seedlings? Does not want to kill them :cry: Should I move them to plain hydroponic (autopot systems to save vertical space) and bigger grow tent (96"x48") with 2x600w lamps for now?

I am not planning on breeding and brooding my fish - it is too advanced topic for me :roll: and I need to get comfortable with vegetables first.

I thought to buy 21 fishes (3-4 inch in size) to put 7 in each tank. I desided to buy more in case some will die in a process :oops: . Trout is my choice because of water temperature - it is kinda cold in the basement.

What tank size and fish count would you recomment for 6 flowering plants (tomato, pepper mix)?

How much nitrates require strawberry?

[Oliver]

Some leafy greens saturate with light at fairly low levels, about one half full sun light. Their growth rate is a non-linear function with regard to light intensity. Meaning, in this case, that doubling the amount of light does not double the growth rate. However, increasing the number of hours of illumination in a 24 hour period has more of a direct and linear relationship to the growth rate. In other words, the more hours of light gives you more growth thereby allowing you to reduce your lighting power requirements by increasing the amount of time the lights are illuminating the plants. It has been shown that this is the most energy efficient way to grow some types of lettuce.

When dealing with HID lighting, the light bulb is placed in a reflecting shroud (reflector). The shape of this reflector and the resulting light pattern will determine how you configure your brow beds, as most shrouds put out a rectangular pattern of light. 2 X 600 Watts for the 48" X 96" beds should be enough for leafy greens as long as you can equally illuminate with two lights as that shape of grow bed is basically that of two square 48" grow beds. Three 400 watt HID would probably work better for that coverage requirement.

For what you are planning on doing, regarding the grow beds, mixing light types doesn't seem like a good idea unless you are grouping your grow beds and using different lighting types to grow different kinds of plants.

You may want to consider using fluorescent lighting. By using multiple four foot 35 watt T8s, you can have enough lighting and not spend a lot of money. They will need to be kept close to the plants as the light produced is not very directive and they will only grow leafy greens well.

On the other end, LEDs can provide you with light that is highly directive (at least one brand), meaning that the lights can be placed high above the grow beds in order to cover them with light. This also has the advantage of you being able to grow taller plants without having to move the lights. Multiple height plants can be grown in close proximity to each other as the light is coming from straight overhead, for the LED grow lights arrays have a relatively wide aperture. They also can grow a wide variety of plants. LEDs consume about one forth the amount of electricity as a light equivalent HID or fluorescent. This is due to the LEDs only generating the required colors of light, thereby making them more efficient.

The down side to LED grow lights is the price, as they are expensive.

As far as brooding fish, you may find one day that you are doing just that. As long as you have mixed sex in the same tank, sooner or later it will happen. We kept our Tilapia in cool water and they only had a few little ones twice in two years. We then moved some from that and other tanks into our grow room where we keep the water warm and suddenly we had several hundred baby Tilapia.

You say trout is your choice because of water temperature. I am wondering what that temperature will be over a year. You may want to consider Oreochromis Aureus, also known as Blue Tilapia. They can live in water temperatures into the 50s F. They do better and, if fed ample amounts of food, grow faster in warmer water.

As far as the tank size for a given number of plants, the fish tank should be big enough to house the needed number of fish to fulfill the required nutrients for the plants. The number of fish required depends, in part, on how much food they process in a given amount of time. That, in part, is determined by the water temperature. Lots of variables here, so many in fact, that I wouldn't want to hazard a guess on the requirements to grow a given type and number of plants. Others here may wish to take a stab at answering this one.

Regarding strawberries, I don't have any experience in growing strawberries, nor have I looked up any information on growing them.

I feel you are moving in the right direction and your thinking about Aquaponics is informed.

This stage of the Aquaponics adventure for you will only happen once and at some point in the future it will be remembered with fondness.

Oliver

[sdanchenko]

You may want to consider Oreochromis Aureus, also known as Blue Tilapia. They can live in water temperatures into the 50s F. They do better and if fed ample amounts of food, grow faster in warmer water.
Oliver

I am not against Telapia, I just do not know where I can get it. Does anyone ship it to North New Jersey (zip code 07410)? Also, where do I get food for Telapia?

There is Trout hatcherie (60 miles away from me) and I can get fish and food from them and this is why I considered Trout.

[sdanchenko]

Heh, ordered Blue Tilapia from Tilapiasource.com, kinda expensive.

Now need to warm up water for it. :( And find a feed locally.

[foodchain]

Your trout will die like this. Even @ 7 per tank. Trout do not take to smaller tanks well. IF you want trout, fine...go with a larger tank or better yet a pool or raceway design.
IF it's the tubs you want...fine....change the fish.

[foodchain]

Your tilapia is a better choice, BUT....they will out grow your tubs either by growth or by breeding.
Tilapia can get big, especially if they have warmth and food.

[sdanchenko]

Tilapia can get big, especially if they have warmth and food.

I will try my best to let them grow to plate size only. 8-) Also, I have doubts, that all 21 tilapias will survive in hands of such a newbie as myself.

Eventually, I will move to something like Rubbermaid 300 gal fish tank as it has same sizes as my 3 fish tanks, just a bit taller. Also, summer is coming and I would like to add backyard system based on IBC if I will find them.

[foodchain]

My experience has been, that you really have to try to kill tilapia. If you can keep a goldfish alive, you can keep a tilapia. Just keep em warm.
They are forgiving about a lot of stuff, but not really that.

[urbanfarmer]

Greetings Earthling, and welcome to the addiction! :mrgreen:

[sdanchenko]

Greetings Earthling, and welcome to the addiction! :mrgreen:

This is really addiction. Lettuce is going to be a golden. :?

[sdanchenko]

Small update.

Finally got fish today (all alive).

Did some tests:

Temperature in FT is 62-70.

pH tester: 8.1
Fresh Water Master Test Kit:
pH: 8, Ammonia:0-0.25, Nitrits: 0, Nitrates: 0

Also, I added additional 400w lamp:
[attachment=1:29o9zslo]100_1181.JPG[/attachment:29o9zslo]

Moved my pepper and tomatos to my system:
[attachment=0:29o9zslo]100_1180.JPG[/attachment:29o9zslo]

[sdanchenko]

Ups, my pH went to 8.6 and I think it is kinda high. Do I need to try to lower it or it will lower by itself?

Yesterday I added Maxicrop (Seaweed) and water was muddy, now it is more clear. Can Maxicrop increase pH?

[keith_r]

maxicrop will not increase ph, but will "stain" the water for a short time..some people get impatient and try to adjust the ph, but it will go down, and dosing with maxicrop w/ iron occasionally will help the plants until it does drop..it really will drop unless your media is limestone or the like, which will keep it high

[sdanchenko]

Added radish, onion and dill to the mix.

Tonight, circuit breaker went off for 4 hours when I was not at home. Luckily fish survived, but water temp is dropped from 75 to 64.

It looks like power backup is getting its importance at least for air pump.

[davidstcldfl]

Tonight, circuit breaker went off for 4 hours when I was not at home. Luckily fish survived, but water temp is dropped from 75 to 64.
Any idea why sdanchenko ?

[foodchain]

Don't sweat the temp drop. Tilapia are hardy as long as they are in good health, and you bring them back up slowly.
Mine go into the mid 50's during winter....I lose a few, but the bigger ones seem to be more tolerant. The books/other people state they can't survive that low, I would imagine this depends on variety/strain. Mine seem to do just fine, as long as they have been in good health/condition going into the winter.
Reduce your feedings during cool downs or cold spells. It takes longer for digestion, and otherwise will reduce water quality faster due to spoiling uneaten food.
You can't have too much air. Just the way it is. Regardless of species of fish...more air is better.

I have 3 extra air pumps on my wintering over system. Don't need them, but have them anyway. Cold water also holds more DO than warm water.

[sdanchenko]

Any idea why sdanchenko ?

Circuit breaker (15amps) went off because of overloading: washing/drying machines, 2 x 400w HID lamps, 300W heater was fine until Rainbow vacuum was connected to it.

It is not my home (I am renting first floor and basement) and electrical part looks strange for me, but I can do nothing to fix it. :(

Temperature in my basement went higher after I connected second 400w lamp in grow tent and 300w heater in middle FT. So with lamps and heater turned off, temperature went to regular 60+ range.

When lamps and heater are on - temperature of water is usually in 74+ range

[sdanchenko]

Two smallest fishes died :( and it looks like one more will die soon.

Also, tomato plants are showing deficiency signs.

[sdanchenko]

Two more tilapias died (total 4). :(

pH is 7.2-7.4
Ammonia <0.25ppm
Nitrites < 0.25ppm
Nitrates < 0.25 ppm
Water temperature is 72-74

All tests seems to be fine but fish is dying. I, think, would I start with Trout - it will be dead by now. :?

Also, basement got strong fish smell. Does it suppose to be that strong?

[davidstcldfl]

Foodchain mentioned 2 important things....

1st, did you bring 'up' the tempt slowly after your power interuption ?
JMO....I would of done it over a few days.

2nd, Do you have enough air ?
More is better, not only for the fish, but for the plants and the nitrifying bacteria too.

As far as the smell....I've never had an indoor AP system. Just a few indoor breeder tanks. The dead fish produce some extra ammonia....maybe that added to the smell ?

Just wondering...How many fish do you have left ?

[foodchain]

DO would be my biggest guess.

Also, the smell is likely from the dying fish....consider water change. Pay attention to water temp.
Again increase DO. If you think it's enough, add more.

[sdanchenko]

One more dead fish (total dead 5 and 11-12 alive).

Temp - it increases slowly with just one 300w water heater. As far as DO, I have no way to measure it, but I have 2 airstones in each FT ( < 50 gal each FT).

My concern is food. The fish food I got with fish drowse immediately. Does tilapia pick-up food from bottom?

[foodchain]

drowse? Yes Tilapia can pick from bottom. BUT lack of food or bad food wouldn't cause your losses like this.
Water change and increase DO.

[sdanchenko]

drowse? Yes Tilapia can pick from bottom. BUT lack of food or bad food wouldn't cause your losses like this.
Water change and increase DO.

Do I need to change all water or part of it?

[keith_r]

check the dates on your test kit.. and make sure you are following instructions

[sdanchenko]

This is my first harvest :lol:
[attachment=2:361ouwp8]100_1427.JPG[/attachment:361ouwp8]

This is what I have:
[attachment=0:361ouwp8]100_1429.JPG[/attachment:361ouwp8]
[attachment=1:361ouwp8]100_1430.JPG[/attachment:361ouwp8]

Looks like system stabilise and fish does not die any more. So far some fish grows nicely and are kinda big when some fishes looks like they did not grow :? but, at least, no deaths.

Next in my plan is adding red worms.

Also, seeded lettuce in free spaces :) Let see how it will grow.

There are dill and onion on pictures too, but their grows is slow that they are invisible.

[sdanchenko]

My central tomato is putting flowers. Now I need to learn how to pollinate them :shock:
[attachment=2:10oohjon]100_1431.JPG[/attachment:10oohjon]

Looks like pepper did not grow at all:

Is is deficiency or temperature?
[attachment=1:10oohjon]100_1433.JPG[/attachment:10oohjon]

Tomato's leaves are getting dots:
[attachment=0:10oohjon]100_1432.JPG[/attachment:10oohjon]

Any ideas?

[davidstcldfl]

The way your leaves on your pepper plant have curled....it might be tabacco virus. (hope I'm wrong) Urbanfarmer is pretty sharp at this kind of thing.... :D Lets see what he says (?)

sdanchenko, do you smoke/chew tabacco ? If you do, wash your hands really well before touching your plants.

[sdanchenko]

The way your leaves on your pepper plant have curled....it might be tabacco virus. (hope I'm wrong) Urbanfarmer is pretty sharp at this kind of thing.... :D Lets see what he says (?)

sdanchenko, do you smoke/chew tabacco ? If you do, wash your hands really well before touching your plants.

Well, I do not smoke nor chew any tobacco. Nobody in my home does. Pepper grows was totally stunted when I moved them to aquaponic. I add only MaxiCrop plus Iron one in while and it could be potassium deficiency of something else, as tomatoes, onion and dill are affected as well. Radish, however, seems to be doing well. :?

I added lettuce (and it already sprouted) to see how it will grow. I am really getting attached to my aquaponic setup. Cannot wait for sunny and warm days to expand to backyard. :roll: Maybe completely move to backyard.

As far as fishy smell - it looks like overfeeding is the cause. It is so tempting to feed more, so fish will grow faster :lol:

[harvyfugel]

Hey sdanchenko , you are doing a good work but yes i agree with foodchain that if you want to grow trout fine you should go with a larger tank. Good luck and keep on sharing the updated pics.