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Eleven11
12-19-2011, 06:18 PM
Just curious what to use in place of Seasol since it isnt available in the US.

I was going try Urea too but havent found a source for that either.

I should be ready to add plants to my system within a week.

Thanks,

11:11

davidstcldfl
12-19-2011, 07:24 PM
Hi 11:11 welcome to the forum... :D
Maxi crop (with iron) is made from sea weed. I buy it at my local hydro shop.

Urea is pretty easy to make. Most folks start by drinking 3 or 4 beers ...coffee will work, but you may need to drink a little more...and wait a little longer for the results... :P

You can use pure ammonia to start the cycle. It's hard to find it with out soap or perfumes in it though.

urbanfarmer
12-19-2011, 09:02 PM
I was going try Urea too but havent found a source for that either.
It's closer than you think... :lol:

Eleven11
12-19-2011, 11:41 PM
Hmmmm 'waste not' huh?

Okay I'll give it a 'shot' ....lol

And get some Maxicrop too... Thx guys

keith_r
12-20-2011, 10:17 AM
if you age your pee for a couple weeks in a sealed container, this will allow the pee to convert to am, if you go "directly" in your tank, you won't get ammonia readings for at least a few days, so don't add more until you see the first rise in am

urbanfarmer
12-20-2011, 01:15 PM
if you age your pee for a couple weeks in a sealed container, this will allow the pee to convert to am, if you go "directly" in your tank, you won't get ammonia readings for at least a few days, so don't add more until you see the first rise in am
This folklore began in another community. After many requests for some scientific reasoning for WHY this MUST be done, I have yet to receive a single response. On the other hand, I can present a case using some basic chemistry as to why this is foolish and wasteful and... ultimately, folklore. I wont get into it with pages of research and science that no one cares about; so, I'll just leave it at that.

Just pee in your water. Keeping it in a bottle for some undefined set of time is nothing more than modern day witchcraft.

ENJOY! :-)

P.S. Yes, the cyanate ion can convert back to ammonia through biological or purely chemical means. The biological reaction may be why you observed a delayed spike in ammonia, but I still don't see why this is "bad", per se.

keith_r
12-20-2011, 01:16 PM
actually, TC documented her experiments pretty well with her "peeponics" information..
just because you didn't do the experiment does not mean it's folklore..

urbanfarmer
12-20-2011, 05:33 PM
actually, TC documented her experiments pretty well with her "peeponics" information..
just because you didn't do the experiment does not mean it's folklore..
I would like to see this documentation you speak of. :-) Unless you refer to the "blog post" that was "Posted by [...] on June 6, 2010 at 8:00pm" and it is full of folklore. I can cite EPA standards and other health related guidelines on relevant topics that can support that, but why bother... sigh...

One of the claims I have heard is that it's UNSAFE until you let it sit. The other is you HAVE to let it sit in a bottle for X amount of time to convert the urea to ammonia. Both are untrue. The concepts are derived from how someone feels about what is happening. Therefore, it is folklore.

BTW, I am not saying not to let it sit in a bottle. You can store human urine in as many bottles as you like and for as long as you like. It will still work in the system to some extend (depending on how long you store it, of course).

Ancient Chinese folks used to store human urine in jars for 10 years. They would then harvest it to use as a remedy for burn wounds. If I recall the documentary correctly, the chemical found in 10 year old urine is similar to the pharmaceutical we use today for such a purpose.

Hope that helps! :mrgreen:

davidstcldfl
12-20-2011, 06:16 PM
Wikipedia actually has a large discription of urine's use as a fertilizer...wow,its actually better then I thought.... :lol:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urine

Here's 'part of' what wikipedia said.....

Agriculture: Fertilizer
Urine contains large quantities of nitrogen (mostly as urea), as well as significant quantities of dissolved phosphates and potassium, the main macronutrients required by plants, with urine having plant macronutrient percentages (i.e. NPK) of approximately 11-1-2 by one study[20] or 15-1-2 by another report,[21] illustrating that exact composition varies with diet. Undiluted, it can chemically burn the roots of some plants, but it can be used safely as a source of complementary nitrogen in carbon-rich compost.[22]

When diluted with water (at a 1:5 ratio for container-grown annual crops with fresh growing medium each season,[23] or a 1:8 ratio for more general use[22]), it can be applied directly to soil as a fertilizer. The fertilization effect of urine has been found to be comparable to that of commercial fertilizers with an equivalent NPK rating.[24] Urine contains most (94% according to Wolgast[20]) of the NPK nutrients excreted by the human body.

bsfman
12-20-2011, 06:27 PM
Wikipedia actually has a large discription of urine's use as a fertilizer...wow,its actually better then I thought.... :lol:


Evidently it's quite useful when combined with wood ash too.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/09/090918-urine-ash-fertilizer.html
What a remarkable excuse to use only natural lump wood charcoal when grilling outdoors and drink prodigious quantities of beer in the process of doing so! 8-)

urbanfarmer
12-20-2011, 06:42 PM
I agree guys, it's great stuff. I have had a system running on only that! Also, I had lettuce and peppers and other things in it. I ATE EVERYTHING RAW FROM THAT SYSTEM. Not ONCE did I get sick. How's THAT for first hand experience? HMMMM? :-)

keith_r
12-21-2011, 07:41 AM
I was talking about her actual post on another forum, not a blog post;

PeePonics (http://backyardaquaponics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=2534)

I know i've been reprimanded for putting links to other places, but you asked for it..it's a good read

bsfman
12-21-2011, 11:45 AM
if you age your pee for a couple weeks in a sealed container, this will allow the pee to convert to am, if you go "directly" in your tank, you won't get ammonia readings for at least a few days, so don't add more until you see the first rise in am

I don't think it takes nearly that long, Keith_r. I dosed my smallest system with a fresh pint or so of my personal best straight from the hose (so to speak) at about 8:00am this morning. The system has gone from zero ppm ammonia and zero ppm nitrite before the addition to 0.5 ppm ammonia and 1.0 ppm nitrite in a 140 gallon system in 5 hours time. The system has been cycled for a few weeks, so it was fully populated with bacteria which apparently immediately started converting the ammonia to nitrites. But for nitrites to be visible already means there had to be at least SOME ammonia present right away.

I'll check again in a few hours and see if ammonia is increasing or starting to decline.

urbanfarmer
12-21-2011, 12:14 PM
i was talking about her actual post on another forum, not a blog post;

i know i've been reprimanded for putting links to other places, but you asked for it..it's a good read
Thanks keith, I will read through it all soon.

davidstcldfl
12-21-2011, 05:10 PM
Wikipedia actually has a large discription of urine's use as a fertilizer...wow,its actually better then I thought.... :lol:


Evidently it's quite useful when combined with wood ash too.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/09/090918-urine-ash-fertilizer.html
What a remarkable excuse to use only natural lump wood charcoal when grilling outdoors and drink prodigious quantities of beer in the process of doing so! 8-)
:lol:

bsfman
12-22-2011, 08:19 AM
I'll check again in a few hours and see if ammonia is increasing or starting to decline.

Checked this morning - 24 hrs after dosing. Ammonia and nitrite had dropped to zero. Nitrate level is up. Added triple the whiz amount from yesterday. Will check ammonia and nitrite levels this afternoon.

bsfman
12-22-2011, 01:31 PM
I'll check again in a few hours and see if ammonia is increasing or starting to decline.

Checked this morning - 24 hrs after dosing. Ammonia and nitrite had dropped to zero. Nitrate level is up. Added triple the whiz amount from yesterday. Will check ammonia and nitrite levels this afternoon.

At 3pm ammonia 4ppm, nitrite over 5ppm. Very evident the pee has available ammonia right away.

keith_r
12-22-2011, 01:49 PM
how long has your system been cycling bsfman?

bsfman
12-22-2011, 03:21 PM
how long has your system been cycling bsfman?

I believe it was Dec 2nd when I set up this system. But I seeded it with old media and it fully cycled in less than a week. After a massive ammonia and nitrite peak, it maintained zero ppm ammonia and nitrite with 18 large sunfish and a 2 pound catfish in it for several weeks - right up until I liberated them back to the canal the day before I started my peeponics experiment.

Basil1
12-22-2011, 03:46 PM
Sure that I read this somewhere on here. Wouldn't you need to be careful if you take medications?

bsfman
12-22-2011, 03:47 PM
Sure that I read this somewhere on here. Wouldn't you need to be careful if you take medications?

Perhaps, but other than the occasional aspirin, I don't.

urbanfarmer
12-22-2011, 06:17 PM
Sure that I read this somewhere on here. Wouldn't you need to be careful if you take medications?
This is a complicated subject far out of reach from the laymans understanding... The metabolites of certain pharmaceuticals as excreted by the human body and then further metabolized by bacteria and plants and fish... well... let's just say the term impossibly-interdisciplinary comes to mind. I don't know if you could get that many PhDs, PharmDs, MDs, to meet in a room to discuss aquaponics.

Eleven11
12-23-2011, 12:11 PM
Great info about the DIY fertilizer ... I think I'll keep it a secret around here. ;)