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Basil1
11-18-2011, 10:06 AM
100 gallon fish pond. 32x24x12 GB with gravel. Fill time 5 minutes 45 seconds. Drain time 1 minute 43 seconds.
Ammonia 0
Nitrite < 1 ppm
Nitrate > 80 ppm
PH 7.0
Plants show very slow growth but pepper has a bud on it. Lots of ants and metallic green flies.

Tub sitting in tank top inside has approximately same parameters but explosive growth.

Have not seen any aphids or any other insect other than those listed.

Obviously something is wrong and since my knowledge currently leans toward fish.............
HELP!

foodchain
11-18-2011, 11:40 AM
Good Afternoon...
I didn't see any mention of light source. Are these outside? Is one getting more light than the other...this is usually my problem.
What is your stocking density?
Are you feeding a commercial food? Any additives? Alot of them have odd stuff in them, usually used as fillers. Medicated food?
Just fishing for any info I can here in an effort to help you out.

urbanfarmer
11-18-2011, 11:41 AM
Please provide more information on the plants. What kind of plants? What are they sitting in? What do they look like? A few GOOD pictures may be worth several thousand words.

Basil1
11-18-2011, 11:57 AM
The GB is outside receiving sunlight. Fed a commercial brand pellet and fresh vegetation. 10 koi ranging from 4-7 inches plus 10 comets ranging from 2-5 inches. Plants are a bell pepper(has a bud on it), 3 small tomato plants, a loofah, some basil and some lettuce.

As an example, tomato plants were all put in at same time. At about 3 inches tall one was moved indoors to the tank top. The ones outside are maybe 5 inches, the one inside is over a foot.

urbanfarmer
11-18-2011, 12:16 PM
The GB is outside receiving sunlight. Fed a commercial brand pellet and fresh vegetation. 10 koi ranging from 4-7 inches plus 10 comets ranging from 2-5 inches. Plants are a bell pepper(has a bud on it), 3 small tomato plants, a loofah, some basil and some lettuce.

As an example, tomato plants were all put in at same time. At about 3 inches tall one was moved indoors to the tank top. The ones outside are maybe 5 inches, the one inside is over a foot.
Since you are in Florida (although you're in Tampa) the likely cause is the temperature differences between outside/inside.

If you can be more specific on the things going wrong with the plants, I can give more ideas. No signs of nutrient deficiency or disease? You had mentioned no pests; so, I won't ask that.

Are they the same cultivar of tomato? Genetics can affect their differences as well. Also, maybe the one inside is getting better nutrients or DO or bacteria/fungi? Soooo many factors. The easiest ones are temperature, pests, nutrient problems. From there it's a crapshoot without actually being there.

Basil1
11-18-2011, 12:27 PM
Inside one are constantly in water, controlled temp and no bugs of any kind. But weather has been pretty steady here so not a big change. Some of the leaves have died or yellowed. Same batch of seeds on plants. As to pests just the millions of ants and flies.

foodchain
11-18-2011, 12:33 PM
In terrestrials, doesn't iron and potasium or maybe potash.....anyway I thought those effected the color of the leaves, and shortages caused the yellowing and leaf drop. I know this isn't terestrials. But if it was a nutrient problem, wouldn't both GB be effected assuming varieties are the same, as both beds are fed from same source? Just thinking out loud.
What media are you using? If it's not the same in both beds, could something be leaching out of the one that's not performing? And since the other bed is further from the source, it not being effected as much? I used gravel from the stone yard once, and it turned my water all milky, took me a long time to finally figure out the cuase.

Basil1
11-18-2011, 12:39 PM
Only one gb. The other is a tub sitting on top of my aquarium. GB is gravel, the tub has cups with hydroton.

foodchain
11-18-2011, 12:51 PM
I am favoring light then. Outside would be getting full spectrum, where inside probably isn't. But I am making a guess at best....a total shot in the dark. I am gonna agree with urban farmer on this one. There's something happening with one, that isn't effecting the other. We know it's not the water/fish/food isn't likely. What do you think? I am not giving any advice, just looking to discuss this....and maybe process of elimination. I wouldn't think a nutrient issue, as that would effect both. Beats me....what do you think?

Basil1
11-18-2011, 01:01 PM
I would think if lack of lighting the one getting sunlight would be better. Maybe not getting enough nutrients with flood and drain as opposed to constant root immersion. Now the tank did have higher nitrate levels to begin with but has come down to same level as pond. That may be it but just seems an extreme difference.

foodchain
11-18-2011, 01:09 PM
I am sorry, I didn't understand your layout. Finding I read things too fast, and miss stuff. Odd never really had this problem before. Sorry man, I just don't know plants that well. I know lots about aquaculture...but only been into plants now a couple years.

urbanfarmer
11-20-2011, 02:30 PM
I would think if lack of lighting the one getting sunlight would be better. Maybe not getting enough nutrients with flood and drain as opposed to constant root immersion. Now the tank did have higher nitrate levels to begin with but has come down to same level as pond. That may be it but just seems an extreme difference.
I'm still struggling just to get an understanding of what your setup is like. I was assuming they were all part of the same system, did I assume wrong?

Are ALL the plants doing better inside than outside or are some doing about the same? I would expect during this time of year for the indoor plants of everything you mentioned except maybe the lettuce, to be doing better. However, I would imagine your night time temps are not hitting in the 40's down there, or are they? It could be the difference in the lighting regime as well. The bottom line is that unless something drastic is going on, there are just too many variables and there is too little data to figure this one out.

One other thought, maybe the indoor plants like watching TV?

Basil1
11-21-2011, 01:31 PM
Sorry for the delay in answering, had a couple of bad days. Two seperate systems. The outdoor one is doing poorly compared to the indoor one. Staying in the mid to high 60's most nights, occasionally to the 50's. Biggest issue may be the ants. Had a bell pepper flower start to open. Ants covered it and ate everything non green. Working on getting rid of them now.

No tv in that room so not it. Perhaps it's the direct communication with the fish.

Basil1
12-17-2011, 09:47 AM
Looks like I was just being impatient. Things are growing well now but still fighting ants. Using food grade DE but seems to work very slow. Could just be the amount of ants I have. Anyone have an anteater for rent?

urbanfarmer
12-17-2011, 03:45 PM
Looks like I was just being impatient. Things are growing well now but still fighting ants. Using food grade DE but seems to work very slow. Could just be the amount of ants I have. Anyone have an anteater for rent?
I got all kinds of these guys, and they seem to keep all the other critters away:

http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/209/38473052689eacdd8347o.jpg
This is not from my garden, but it looks exactly like this.

The bugs literally find any fruiting plant and guard it by the dozens. I love these little bugs. I bet most people destroy them when they find them on their plants, but I have had NO PEST PROBLEMS since they built armies around my garden. The things put lady bugs to shame. Well... actually... they eat lady bugs too I think...

I have about 200 tomatoes growing right now. HURRY UP TOMATO PLANTS!!!

commander
12-17-2011, 04:03 PM
Wht the hell are those things?




Looks like I was just being impatient. Things are growing well now but still fighting ants. Using food grade DE but seems to work very slow. Could just be the amount of ants I have. Anyone have an anteater for rent?
I got all kinds of these guys, and they seem to keep all the other critters away:

http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/209/38473052689eacdd8347o.jpg
This is not from my garden, but it looks exactly like this.

The bugs literally find any fruiting plant and guard it by the dozens. I love these little bugs. I bet most people destroy them when they find them on their plants, but I have had NO PEST PROBLEMS since they built armies around my garden. The things put lady bugs to shame. Well... actually... they eat lady bugs too I think...

I have about 200 tomatoes growing right now. HURRY UP TOMATO PLANTS!!!

Basil1
02-09-2012, 07:07 AM
Again, what are those things? Plant growth has exploded, I was just impatient. Got cherry tomatoes popping out like crazy as well as basil, lettuce and butternut. Still fighting the ants on the flowers but they don't touch the tomatoes.
As a side note, the butternut squash in the fish tank is flowering like crazy. Been waiting to do some hand pollinating and start getting squash. Read that male flowers are more prolific and start earlier. In about 30 flowers there has not been a single female bloom. Been a couple that looked like they were forming but never got large, just withered. Possible reasons why?

Eleven11
02-09-2012, 07:27 AM
Interesting looking bug. I think I've seen them around before but on flower plants out front. They seemed to keep close to each other, moving as a group. Since they didn't seem to be hurting the flowers, I didn't have any problem with them.

urbanfarmer
02-09-2012, 12:02 PM
Again, what are those things? Plant growth has exploded, I was just impatient. Got cherry tomatoes popping out like crazy as well as basil, lettuce and butternut. Still fighting the ants on the flowers but they don't touch the tomatoes.
As a side note, the butternut squash in the fish tank is flowering like crazy. Been waiting to do some hand pollinating and start getting squash. Read that male flowers are more prolific and start earlier. In about 30 flowers there has not been a single female bloom. Been a couple that looked like they were forming but never got large, just withered. Possible reasons why?
My best guess is...

Kingdom Animalia (Animals)
Phylum Arthropoda (Arthropods)
Class Insecta (Insects)
Order Hemiptera (True Bugs, Cicadas, Hoppers, Aphids and Allies)
Suborder Heteroptera (True Bugs)
Family Reduviidae (Assassin Bugs)
Subfamily Harpactorinae
Genus Zelus
Species longipes (Milkweed Assassin Bug)

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/in883

http://entnemdept.ufl.edu/creatures/ben ... ipes17.htm (http://entnemdept.ufl.edu/creatures/beneficial/bugs/zelus_longipes17.htm)

Basil1
02-09-2012, 12:50 PM
[/quote]
My best guess is...

Kingdom Animalia (Animals)
Phylum Arthropoda (Arthropods)
Class Insecta (Insects)
Order Hemiptera (True Bugs, Cicadas, Hoppers, Aphids and Allies)
Suborder Heteroptera (True Bugs)
Family Reduviidae (Assassin Bugs)
Subfamily Harpactorinae
Genus Zelus
Species longipes (Milkweed Assassin Bug)

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/in883

http://entnemdept.ufl.edu/creatures/ben ... ipes17.htm (http://entnemdept.ufl.edu/creatures/beneficial/bugs/zelus_longipes17.htm)[/quote]

Have not seen any around. Interesting but did not see where ants were on the menu.