Size?

[foodchain]

Not sure if right place to ask this...but seems like it could go here.

Tilapia grow fast. The older the bigger. Some places only grow them a couple of months. Some places a couple of seasons. Being able to breed at 3 inches or so....
What size do you eat your's at?
Do you prefer to fillet or whole?
Looking for some discussion here, so work with me a little.
Thank you.

[foodchain]

I like to fillet mine, baked or BBQ.
Lemon and pepper.
I have recipe to try as jerky, but haven't tried it yet.
I like the big ones, as easier to clean one big one 10" plus than
a bucket of little ones.

[keith_r]

i've only tried tilapia from local grocery stores, and it's usually imported.. they sell fillet's, i find it very mild..
at some point i'll probably set up a tank and try tilapia, but that's probably a little ways down the road

[cedarswamp]

Fillets, parmesan crusted

[stucco]

I found that with my blue tilapia the ¾ pound fish have just as much meat on them as 1 ½ pound fish so I grow more fish and harvest them younger.

[urbanfarmer]

I found that with my blue tilapia the ¾ pound fish have just as much meat on them as 1 ½ pound fish so I grow more fish and harvest them younger.
This is very interesting. The economic implications of this are enormous. Sounds like someone's research paper! :lol:

So, what you're saying is when you fillet them it's about the same fillet size?

Are you using pure blue tilapia (I know, this is near impossible, but wondering how carefully you manage your genetics).

Are they GIFT tilapia?

Are they hybridized at all?

Have you selectively bred them in any way?

Last question, do they LOOK like they grow in a way that wastes the meat when filleted or do you think they're putting on weight in other ways thereby wasting your feed and time??

PLEASE answer, this is too interesting of an observation to ignore!!! :mrgreen:

[stucco]

Yes, it sure seems that way. Last big cull we did was 30 fish ranging in size from 3/4 -1lb up to 3lbs- The fillets of the 3/4-1lb to 1.5lb fish were about the same sized. I did not check sex, which could be a factor. The fish were mostly the same age- except the really large ones which were left over from previous seasons.

They are as pure bred as they could be, though some were gifts as fry- they originated from Morning Star which is advertized as pure bred. We do not have any of the hybrids. Our breeders have been selected by their vigor and initial growth.

My wife is quite the chef- so no waste there. It seems to me that the variance is in the rib cage/organs. From what I can physically see they seem to grow out along the ribcage during the next phase of of their life. This could also be a difference in the sex- but if that were true- all reports I have read say males grow faster and give a better ratio of meat which is not what we saw.

I see many reports of 6-9mo fish harvests, but I take these with a grain of salt- much the same as someone reporting on how many heads of lettuce can be grown in a particular system- when they are really speaking of the lettuce from starts - NOT seeds. It seems too good to be true. I would give the fish about a year from hatchling to harvest (9mo fom fry) depending on the season and water temp as well as food.

Seems like we also need to start a recipe thread...and takers???

[urbanfarmer]

VERY interesting. I believe it would also have to do with climate, genetics, environmental conditions (other than climate), and, feed. For instance, from fry the folks down in Nicaragua where I just went had about 1 pound fish on average in 6-7 months. I have the log book here with all the raw data, but briefly looking at it THAT IS what happened. These appear to be more Nile, but man they look SO CLOSE to our blue's. When we went to the National University of Agriculture (where they buy their fry from) the professor (PhD aquaculture I think he said) stated that on their large aquaculture experimental facility they grow them in that time as well. I mean, this IS what we saw from the fry they sold us. He admitted that, although they call them Nile, they are naturally hybridized as the different species have become intermingled over the many decades of aquaculture in the world.

I have video of these fish in 1080p. I will try to get it up here for you to compare. I was surprised when they said they grew that fast TOO because the fish I have grow more along the rates you describe. I hope I can somehow sneak some of their fish over. It might be genetics, but it might be other factors.

What feed are they using? THEY DONT EVEN KNOW. It's a lawless land down there... sleeping every night under armed guard, having to be vigilant for our lives every time we stepped outside the compound, constant power outages, water outages, no hot water, etc. SO, WHO KNOWS. Maybe they're sneaking hormones in the food, occurs in the tap water from poor municipal regulations, etc. Or maybe it's just the right climate, sun, and the many, MANY, bugs that land in the water (every bug down there is GIGANTIC compared to what we have here).

Anywho, didn't mean to ramble... :lol:


Seems like we also need to start a recipe thread...and takers???
Sounds good to me! :-)

[foodchain]

To some extent though....all species have natural hydrization. I mean really, what is a "pure" strain? A pure bred dog, is still a compilation of other breeds at one point that was selectively and even line bred for specific traits. Take a look at the Jamaican Red Tilapia....or the White's. I find a lot of places claim a strain based on geographics....much in the same way the aquarium industry has gone with the Discus fish. Everyone with a slight color variance thinks they have a new strain. While some are in deed new/improved strains that will breed true....other's aren't, a great many are nothing more than diversity of the same gene pool. And so when bred you get a pot luck.

[foodchain]

I myself have a collection of tilapia, quite a pot luck. Some grow longer and not as thick fillets which are nice for a suchi like fillet that rolls right up. Others grow super short and thick ones. Some are natural colored, some are near black, others are bright orange/red....some look like dalmations, and like the paint horses. IS one better than the other? Depends on what you are trying to do with them I guess. University of HI and UVI have been working for more than a decade now on the genetics, temp tolerance, and salinity in the hopes of trying to breed them to be more salt tolerant. In hopes of being able to cage culture, etc.

[urbanfarmer]

To some extent though....all species have natural hydrization. I mean really, what is a "pure" strain? A pure bred dog, is still a compilation of other breeds at one point that was selectively and even line bred for specific traits. Take a look at the Jamaican Red Tilapia....or the White's. I find a lot of places claim a strain based on geographics....much in the same way the aquarium industry has gone with the Discus fish. Everyone with a slight color variance thinks they have a new strain. While some are in deed new/improved strains that will breed true....other's aren't, a great many are nothing more than diversity of the same gene pool. And so when bred you get a pot luck.
The Jamaican Red Tilapia is in fact a hybdrid. The are not pure strain. Pure strain refers to the purity of the genetic lineage specific to the genetics of that species.

The White Nile Tilapias are pure bred. They are not white because genetics from another species was introduced.

HOWEVER, in reality hybridization occurs in nature. We can draw distinctions by doing DNA tests on mitochondrial DNA and comparing other evidence at well, but selectively breeding vs. hybridization are totally different things.

[urbanfarmer]

I myself have a collection of tilapia, quite a pot luck. Some grow longer and not as thick fillets which are nice for a suchi like fillet that rolls right up. Others grow super short and thick ones. Some are natural colored, some are near black, others are bright orange/red....some look like dalmations, and like the paint horses. IS one better than the other? Depends on what you are trying to do with them I guess. University of HI and UVI have been working for more than a decade now on the genetics, temp tolerance, and salinity in the hopes of trying to breed them to be more salt tolerant. In hopes of being able to cage culture, etc.
I haven't seen any specific research from those 2 organizations (I'm sure it exists), but they have been cage culturing tilapia in cages in brackish waters to full strength seawater for decades. Some species are very capable of doing this with ease whereas others have limits to the salinity. If you look at the histology of tilapia you will see they are in fact built for such a thing. Have you ever wondered why your chlorinated water doesn't kill tilapia whereas it kills other types of fish??? :mrgreen:

[foodchain]

Tilapia can tolerate sea water, it doesn't mean they like it. Trout tolerate it too, in the case of the sea run trout. In fact most salmonoides do. However in those cases, some species come and go like the steelhead, with no apparant changes. Most actual salmon though go through a metomorphic change, and the end result is that the return spawning runs reult in it being a one way trip. I remember this from highschool in the Northwest and seeing first hand in the river "living dead" salmon. Still swimming around, but the flesh decaying on them. Easy prey for eagles and bears. I agree that hyrbization and line breeding are different processes, but I disagree that the end result is much different. The end result is an "improved" organism. "Pure" is relative and subjective. I am curious though, IF the white tilapia is of a mix of genes that are NOT pure. What did it cross with? Let's compare to sunfish here in the states. There are several "hybrid" sunfish, but those are sunfish that are crossed back to other types of sunfish to attain size/growth/etc. But they are still sunfish. They aren't taking a bass and crossing it. I understand what you are saying and please don't misunderstand me. I am agreeing with you. My point is, is that the terms are used interchangably when often times they shouldn't be...as hybridization and line breeding are two completely different processes. These terms are all too often used, when one meaning is meant, and the other is intended.

[foodchain]

I have to watch myself, as I do this sometimes...usually when I am in a hurry.

[urbanfarmer]

Tilapia can tolerate sea water, it doesn't mean they like it. Trout tolerate it too, in the case of the sea run trout. In fact most salmonoides do. However in those cases, some species come and go like the steelhead, with no apparant changes. Most actual salmon though go through a metomorphic change, and the end result is that the return spawning runs reult in it being a one way trip. I remember this from highschool in the Northwest and seeing first hand in the river "living dead" salmon. Still swimming around, but the flesh decaying on them. Easy prey for eagles and bears. I agree that hyrbization and line breeding are different processes, but I disagree that the end result is much different. The end result is an "improved" organism. "Pure" is relative and subjective. I am curious though, IF the white tilapia is of a mix of genes that are NOT pure. What did it cross with? Let's compare to sunfish here in the states. There are several "hybrid" sunfish, but those are sunfish that are crossed back to other types of sunfish to attain size/growth/etc. But they are still sunfish. They aren't taking a bass and crossing it. I understand what you are saying and please don't misunderstand me. I am agreeing with you. My point is, is that the terms are used interchangably when often times they shouldn't be...as hybridization and line breeding are two completely different processes. These terms are all too often used, when one meaning is meant, and the other is intended.
They are not used interchangeably in science. :mrgreen:

The white niles were not crossed with other species to produce a white. They are albino. For instance, if we have a recessive trait [ww] then we can get it after selective breeding in this fashion:

Ww x Ww => 25% ww

Breed ww x ww => 100% ww (all white)

It's THAT easy! :mrgreen:

[foodchain]

Then they are not a hybrid, they are line bred. I am confused:

"The While Nile Tilapias are pure bred. They are not white because genetics from another species was introduced."

A wolf hybrid...is just that a hybrid. A yellow lab crossing with a poodle is not.

[foodchain]

Either way, I apologize for getting off topic.
My tilapia are tilapia, they are tasty. They do what I want. So they are good enough for me.

[urbanfarmer]

Then they are not a hybrid, they are line bred. I am confused:

"The While Nile Tilapias are pure bred. They are not white because genetics from another species was introduced."

A wolf hybrid...is just that a hybrid. A yellow lab crossing with a poodle is not.
oops, WHITE nile, with a T

Why are you confused? :|

[urbanfarmer]

Either way, I apologize for getting off topic.
My tilapia are tilapia, they are tasty. They do what I want. So they are good enough for me.
Oh, we do it all the time it's okay. It's your thread anyway! lol

[foodchain]

Maybe a typo, or I am reading wrong. But your two statements appear to be in contradiction. White tilapia by definition are tilapia...you stated that they are not "pure" as they were crossed and genes added. So what where they crossed with? I believe it's Miami Aqua-culture, Inc that claims to have the white one, from line breeding. Not hybridizing. Hybridizing would be between two species....I don't think mine are albino, as they have color in the fins. True albino would have abcense of color pigment wouldn't it? Or am I forgetting my biology.

[urbanfarmer]

Maybe a typo, or I am reading wrong. But your two statements appear to be in contradiction. White tilapia by definition are tilapia...you stated that they are not "pure" as they were crossed and genes added. So what where they crossed with? I believe it's Miami Aqua-culture, Inc that claims to have the white one, from line breeding. Not hybridizing. Hybridizing would be between two species....I don't think mine are albino, as they have color in the fins. True albino would have abcense of color pigment wouldn't it? Or am I forgetting my biology.
OH, I see the problem. Yes, when I said crossed I didn't mean crossed with other species just other parents of the same species with distinct traits. We cross, like in the example, the pigment with a dominant and recessive with another parent who also has a dominant and recessive. Then we take the offspring with the double recessive (and now phenotypic trait) and cross them with each other to produce all our white tilapia. That's just an example, I have no idea how many actual genes are involved in the pigmentation.

Here is a good source: http://learn.genetics.utah.edu/

[foodchain]

Okay, but then doesn't that prove what I said about line breeding? Breeding back to previous generations to improve the chance of a given trait. So...if you are breeding back on the line, does that not make it purer? Just a thought. Guess no one here really eats their tilapia...or the thread is not of an enlightening enough subject :)

[urbanfarmer]

Okay, but then doesn't that prove what I said about line breeding? Breeding back to previous generations to improve the chance of a given trait. So...if you are breeding back on the line, does that not make it purer? Just a thought. Guess no one here really eats their tilapia...or the thread is not of an enlightening enough subject :)
It doesn't make it more pure. It just keeps it the same. It's either pure or not pure! :lol: