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spaz2nite
10-02-2011, 07:38 PM
I have a small bed that I am testing for growing, but will expand as we move forward. The bed is 17 in wide, 24 in long, 5 in deep. Have 1 inch stand pipe 4 in high at the corner of bed. Have 2 in bell and it caps right at the top of the stand pipe. Have 3 in guard around the bell. Have it able to get to drain as long as the bed fills up in less than 5 mins, and takes 1 to drain. If I slow down flow rate, then it just starts to trickle as same incoming rate. I have 1/2 in pipe for inbound flow. The stand pipe has a 3/4 reducer that goes to 90 degree horiz and then about 10 inches and goes 90 degree down. It does take the water down to about 1 inch, but if I slow the water rate down to trickle, then it will fill up and stay at that same rate out the pipe and will not flush. It worked perfectly until I added the hydroton. I was able to set the ball valve to 15 mins fill and 2 flush.
Can someone help me please? Thank you

Oliver
10-02-2011, 08:02 PM
For that size of grow bed, your 1 inch stand pipe is way too big. I would change it out to a 1/2 inch stand pipe and even that may be too big. Use the Affnan funnel design on top of the stand pipe to help the siphoning to start. Adjust your flow and check your timing to find the minimum and maximum flow and times the siphon will continue to function.

Oliver

spaz2nite
10-02-2011, 09:17 PM
Thank you Oliver
I was just discussing that with my wife and we will swap out the pipe tomorrow.
I also saw where a guy had a 1/2 that then went to 1" flow tube. We had been reading that it is to go from larger to smaller to create the siphon. I guess I am wrong then? What is the Affnan funnel design please?
Thanks again.

davidstcldfl
10-02-2011, 11:12 PM
Affnan's blog...
http://affnan-aquaponics.blogspot.com/2 ... l?spref=fb (http://affnan-aquaponics.blogspot.com/2011/04/mini-siphon-improving-previous-design.html?spref=fb)

spaz2nite
10-03-2011, 07:29 AM
Good Morning and thanks for the reply
I am going to try the "funnel" approach.
What about the outflow pipe size?
I see that some use smaller to bigger and some use bigger to smaller.
I am wanting stay with either 3/4 or 1 inch so I can have them all attach together.
Thank you

davidstcldfl
10-03-2011, 08:29 AM
I am wanting stay with either 3/4 or 1 inch so I can have them all attach together.
If you mean, having several grow beds with their own bells....tied to a common header. Then that can/will be another issue....

Make sure the header is large enough, to handle 'all' the water....If all the beds 'kick' at one time. If you don't, while one bed is draining, another may/will not be able to 'start' to drain. Been there, done that...I think a few other's here, have too... :(

Also 'vent' the header, just like plumbers do on drain lines.
Good luck... :)

spaz2nite
10-03-2011, 09:34 AM
Thank you VERY much for the reply.
I guess I will have to do more research on venting the header.
I do plan to link them and will possibly have 1 or 2 in returns so they can all tap into that.
I just need to get the small bed we have to work with the hydroton with the correct timing. We ran into the issue that with just water it was able to do 15 mins total cycle.
But, with adding hydroton, we now have a fill of less than 5 mins. I would like to not have to add another pump to turn on and off if possible.

Bioritize
10-03-2011, 12:08 PM
If you check my posts I went through a similar experience. Changing to 1/2" pipe on both the stand pipe and the outlet fixed my issues. I use a 3/4 to 1/2 reducer to create the funnel on the stand pipe.(Bioritize System Progress (http://www.diyaquaponics.com/forum/showthread.php?1058-Bioritize-System-Progress))

I also have found that an outlet that is straight down, works better than one with a 90 or a 45 bend.

Typically, to vent the header you would create a 90 turn to a "T" you would then leave the top opening open. Now if your pipes are too small here you will shoot water up the T in times of high pressure.

spaz2nite
10-03-2011, 12:24 PM
Thank you also for replying
What about my current 2 inch bell that I am using?
Can I still use that and just have the 3/4 to 1/2 reducer on the 1/2 stand pipe?

Bioritize
10-03-2011, 05:01 PM
The size and shape of your bell makes no difference, I do not believe, as long as it creates a seal.

spaz2nite
10-03-2011, 05:07 PM
It seems that as I add the Hydroton, then it fills up faster and even trying to control the flow will not allow me to get it longer than about 6 total mins for the cycle.
I believe that is going to waterlog the plants.

Oliver
10-04-2011, 02:16 AM
I calculate your tank volume as 8.8 gallons. With a 70 gallon tank, I found that using a 1/2 inch stand pipe I could get a range of about 10 to 20 minutes on the siphon cycle by varing the input water flow. That was before adding the Affnan funnel.

That translates into about 1.5 to 3 minutes with your system using a 1/2 inch stand pipe. Obviously, you have achieved a longer duration. Are you using the Affnan funnel?

I have been able to make a 40 gallon system cycle at 15 minutes without the funnel while using that same pipe.

The problem here is two fold. First, your grow beds are not the best depth for an aquaponics system. They can be used, but deeper would be better. Second, the Hydroton displaces about 50% of the water thereby requiring half the flow rate you had when testing the grow beds without it. It will fill faster and it will drain faster with the Hydroton installed.

Going smaller than 1/2 inch is problematic. This is due to the fact that at some point in your grow cycle your stand pipe may become clogged and the smaller the stand pipe the greater the chance of that happening.

In the end, there really is nothing wrong with a fast cycle. It will work, so move on to the next stage of your development.

Oliver

spaz2nite
10-04-2011, 07:02 AM
Thank you again for you reply
I did add a 1 inch to 1/2 reducer to the top of the stand pipe.
I have it set to 4 inches because the bed is about 6 inches total. I may go with either netty pots or possibly use tumbelers for now to hold the plants and hydroton.
I am using some of the deepiest "sterilite" cheap containers I can find for the space I have. I will let my wife know what you told me again and let her know.
Thank you and pray you have a blessed day for all your help.

cedarswamp
10-04-2011, 11:04 AM
It seems that as I add the Hydroton, then it fills up faster and even trying to control the flow will not allow me to get it longer than about 6 total mins for the cycle.
I believe that is going to waterlog the plants.


With a growbed that size don't worry about cycle times. I have a small bed that has a 1:45 min fill, 30 second drain and it has performed flawlessly since around February. I also have two small beds and some buckets that I run continuosly flooded and they actually perform better than the flood and drain. Your fear of water logging your plants is unfounded.

spaz2nite
10-04-2011, 12:13 PM
Thank you for the reply
I worked at a nursery for about 6 years from the time I was 17 until 23.
We used misters and timers and watered the other plants only 2 times daily.
The misters only came on about once every 2 or 3 hours. That is why I was concerned.
I thank you again and will keep watch to make sure it at least does fill up and flush and not just dribble.

spaz2nite
10-04-2011, 12:15 PM
Oliver,
My wife and I were wondering if you don't mind sharing your "how-to" on figuring the size of bed volume and the flow rate via pipe. I heard there was a site that has this type of info via wiki, but have not been able to locate it.
Thanks again.