Advice on training system design

[Bioritize]

Hey Guys,

http://i.imgur.com/w96Mj.jpg

Here is my preliminary designs for a training system I am going to setup for a non-profit group. This group is going to use this to help teach the under-employed or unemployed how to grow fresh fish and veggies, in conjunction with a solar class I am teaching.

The large tank on the bottom is a Rubbermaid 300 gallon stock tank, and the tanks on top are 3 50 gallon Rubbermaid stock tanks.

This system is going to be indoors. We are going to use fluorescent T8 lamps for the grow-beds and grow mostly greens and herbs to start.

I was also planning on using this pump http://www.hydrowholesale.com/Submersible-and-Air-Pumps/EZ-Clone-Replacement-EZ-Clone-Mag-Drive-Pump-700-GPH.asp

I am also planning on experimenting with venturi's on the intake and outlets. Has anyone tried to add the venturi to a bell siphon drain outlet?

I am wondering if I should have a sump tank, if so what gallon size? What are the pro's and con's of not having a sump?

Any suggestions would be great.

Update: Changed the 2x4's to 2x6's and added OSB pieces for lateral support and I changed to the Danner MD12 http://www.aquaticeco.com/subcategories/700/Danner-Supreme-Mag-Drive-Pumps pump. We may test different grow medium one with hydroton, expanded shale and then cheap river rock.

[davidstcldfl]

I am also planning on experimenting with venturi's on the intake and outlets. Has anyone tried to add the venturi to a bell siphon drain outlet?
Here's a link to an idea Affnan has for adding a venturi to a bell siphon....
http://affnan-aquaponics.blogspot.com/2 ... iphon.html (http://affnan-aquaponics.blogspot.com/2010/08/new-challenge-high-water-level-siphon.html)
I don't know if you really need one (?) If you don't have a sump, most of the time your water in the FT will be low...and the return water, will be splashing pretty well anyways.

You could 'split' the discharge line from your pump....sending some water to your GB's and some back to the fish tank. You could just make a diy spray bar. Drill some holes in a length of pvc pipe and let it spray into the FT. Or add a venturi like you said....I use #4738...
http://www.aquaticeco.com/subcategories/1548/Venturi
I know I have a link to a nice diy venturi....just can't seem to find it. If I do, I'll post it. (Maybe someone else has it too)

In order to do either one, you may need a slightly bigger pump (more cost and electric)
Speaking of pumps....I could not find a 'performance curve chart' for the one you listed.
It's very important to know what your pump can do at different heights.
(I did see the one you listed cheaper elsewhere, by $20 some)

You might consider a Danner pump....3 yr warranty on the pump/ 1 year on the impeller, They also show the 'watts' being used,....here's a link so you can look at them...
http://www.aquaticeco.com/subcategories ... rive-Pumps (http://www.aquaticeco.com/subcategories/700/Danner-Supreme-Mag-Drive-Pumps)
Here's the curve chart...
http://www.aquaticeco.com/images/static ... es/MD2.gif (http://www.aquaticeco.com/images/static/pump-curves/MD2.gif)

[Bioritize]

Thanks Dave,

I will change the pump to the Danner brand. Seems like a better quality.

How do you like the venturi that you use? Can you use them on both the input and return lines? What do you put on the 3/4" air inlet opening. The DIY ones used a small tube.

Do you think a small kiddy pool or 40 gallon plastic tank would work as a sump tank? I figured with 300 gallon and only 3 GB's the water height would only vary by 50 gallons or so at any given time. That's 1/6th the tank level.

Also, I believe that these tanks will weight close to 1200 lbs total. I am going to need some sort of better support structure to hold that much.

[davidstcldfl]

How do you like the venturi that you use?
It works ok. At 1st I kept it close to the surface of the water in the fish tank, and had a short section of pvc stuck in the 'air' part. (it came up out of the water)

My FT is 3 ft deep....so I tried putting it deeper. Maybe I didn't have enough water flow going through it (?) It wouldn't pull air that deep own it's own. I ended up putting a short pice of pipe and a cap on the 'air' side. I tapped the cap and added a barb fitting, to which I added an air line. it didn't take much air to overcome the depth problem.

It does rerstrict the flow from the pump a 'good bit'. I ended up replacing it with a diy spray bar. It runs the length of the tank.

I also made a diy 'air curtain'. I used a section of soaker hose (sold in the garden dept for about $10). I stuck a barb adapter fitting in one end, and just folded the other end, and held it with a tye wrap. Then I tye wraped the hose( aka 'air curtain') to a section of rebar, to hold it down.
The barb fitting (adapter) was a 'barb' on one side, and pipe threads on the other. I stuck the threads into the hose....and held it with a hose clamp.
Works pretty good too... :D


Can you use them on both the input and return lines?
Not sure what you mean ...? They only go on the 'discharge' side of the pump....where the water comes out nd goes top the fish tank.
If you did put one on the 'intake' side of the pump....the air going into the pump would destroy the impeller and/or air lock the pump and burn up the motor.

If by 'return line'....do you mean the line returning the water from the grow beds to the fish tank ?
You'll have so much splashing going on when the 'bell siphon' engages, you really won't need one there.
I don't know if you looked at the link to Affnans air venturi on his 'return' from the grow beds...? ( In the earlier post) He only did it, because his FT's water was so high.


I figured with 300 gallon and only 3 GB's the water height would only vary by 50 gallons or so at any given time.
Being inside, to save space, you could skip the sump.

[Bioritize]

Yes, I mean the water that is coming from the pump into the grow beds and then the water going from the bell siphon to the fish tank. Spray bar may be easier.

[davidstcldfl]

Sorry Bioritize...I'm 'trying to' help....it can be a challenge to understand each other, even when we really want to... :?

You won't want a spray bar at the media beds or on the bell siphon discharge, going to the fish tank.
It would splash too much at the media bed. And may make 'too much' back pressure on the bell siphon...('some' back pressure is sometimes needed, to aid in the start of the siphon)

Only if you split the discharge, leaving the pump.....then you could put one on the line, going 'back to' the fish tank.

If you want more air in your media beds...Oliver mentioned something interesting, in one of his teaching threads. He talked about adding air into the grow beds themselves....(maybe) with air diffusers of some kind.(?)
Maybe he will see this...and share his knowledge ... :D

[Bioritize]

Yea he adds air tubes to the bottom of the grow beds. I will probably do this for this system. I just wanted to get some ideas for the venturi's and their use.

Sounds good I will try one on the return line to the fish tank.

I will post a few pictures when I get it finished.

[Bioritize]

Hey Guys,

Started the table today. I changed the design to using 2x6's as the table will need to hold 1200+ lbs. I put another 2x6 in the center of the table which is connected to the sides. It is funny this table the short ends hold twice the weight of the ends. So I doubled the sides. I am going to use 4x4's and notch two sides for the 2x6's to sit on. Then I will cut a few triangles for lateral support. I should have time tomorrow to get the plumbing started. More updates soon.

http://i.imgur.com/6pKZCl.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/9VaEIl.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/2ETVIl.jpg

[Bioritize]

[youtube:1z41474d]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epCCESzQodU[/youtube:1z41474d]

Hey Guys,

I am having a siphon issue with the pump output lines. I am thinking that if I move the center "T" on the other side of the return it will not make such a noise. Is this correct?

Any suggestions on this configuration?

I am very happy how this turned out. So far we are in it about $900. I am happy to see that my initial design looks very much like the final product.

[Bioritize]

Hey Guys,

I am having an issue with the input lines into the grow beds. I currently have the system setup on one main line, it goes to each bed then back to the fish tank with a "T". I currently have 4 ball valves one on each bed line and then one on the return line to reduce the suction noise that would come from the grow bed output lines.

Is there a better way to plumb this bad boy? You can see the layout in the video above.

[keith_r]

for your riser pipe and header go up a size, use reducing t outlets to each gb, then your valve

[Bioritize]

Hey Guys,


Here is a quick update on this system

[youtube:1u3o7qmk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UH_Uq_4oFg[/youtube:1u3o7qmk]

[Bioritize]

Hey Guys,

Here is another update.

[youtube:3q67gqz6]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWXlU5z_Ajc[/youtube:3q67gqz6]

The system is coming along fine. It does seem like this fish are not eating as vigorously lately. Perhaps we need to do a water change here soon. There are about 20 tilapia in this tank, I believe we should be fine using this to breed. Then harvesting the males out when they get to size. Are there any issues with inbreeding in fish stock?

[keith_r]

i'm no fish expert, and i don't know about tilapia, but i've ready that yes, inbreeding can be a problem w/ yp and bg..