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View Full Version : The No-Holes Siphon



jackalope
05-12-2009, 09:14 PM
This is my no-holes siphon, I'm going to put up a pic of all the parts needed and how they are arranged so that it will be easy to make one of your own ..... just change the measurements to your grow-bed sizes ;)

My Growbeds are 13 1/4" apart - I used two Sterilite #1846 - 28qt, 27l. - 5 1/2" deep for my Grow Beds

3/4" PVC throughout
Fittings
10 ea. Ells - add 3/4" to your measurement for amount going into the fitting times two for two fittings
2 ea. Tees - add 3/4" to your measurement for amount going into the fitting times two for two fittings

Pipe
1 ea. 10 5/8" - glued between tees on top (spreader)
4 ea. 4 1/2" - glued between tee and 2 ells and ell and 2 ells on each side
6 ea 1 1/2" - glued between tee and ell on top, and ells on bottom
2 ea. 6 1/4" with 1/8" holes drilled 1/4" apart - 4 sides for sieve or strainer to keep the grow-bed media out of the siphon- this is the Grow Bed inlet - it doesn't need to be glued NOTE: in the photo, I haven't yet drilled the holes in the strainer ;)

http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww91/Jackalope_album/aquaponices002.jpg

for a single grow-bed, you would just use half of the above, but without the tee and using an ell instead - measurements and gluing similar to above. this isn't very stable and so it needs to be weighted down, because my siphons go clear to the bottom of the GB .... I didn't like it.

Allow 24 hours before installing them into the grow-beds if you have fish or plants in them. To fill them with water, just lay them flat in the fish tank so they fill completely with water, then, stand them up so that the open ends are still under water .... carefully, keeping all open ends level, take it out of the water and place it into the growbed, trying not to spill any of the water ..... fill in the media around the strainer and siphon pipe. For the strainer (the outside pipe that goes into the growbed), I just drill 4 lines (N, S, E, W) so the water can flow easily into the siphon, I didn't bother gluing it, because I may have to pull it to clean it in the future ;)

jackalope
05-13-2009, 10:32 PM
Here's an image of a NHS that i've been thinking about for a CHIFT PIST system. The idea is to suck solids off the bottom of FT and to build a stand into the NHO.
Sounds like a winner, if it will work, but I don't think it will ..... I am under the impression that hydraulics demands that both ends have to be at the same level ........ water always seeks it's own level ....... in other words, if one end is lower, it will drain the other tank - the lower end will just suck the water out of the higher end ..... the way it's drawn, you have that just the opposite ;) ...... Now if the large tank were higher above the level of the smaller tank, and the hook of the drain/siphon were below the level of the large tank, then it would act as a siphon, or overflow, drawing water from the bottom of the large tank and into the smaller tank ..... the thing is, you would have to have a pump or grow-bed feeding new water into the large tank to keep it from going dry, and you would have to have some type of pump/drain in the smaller tank (no-holes, bell siphon, loop siphon, etc. to keep it from overflowing

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt263/ernie_j/NHO_01.png

The thing i'm wondering about is, if there are 4 openings at the bottom of the intake and only one at the exit to the sump will the suction be too small to pick up solids off the bottom?
I think it might work fine, if re-designed as mentioned above, if not, once you go from the 4 holes/stand, I would increase the size of the rest of the pipe if it doesn't have enuff suction .... Just a matter of cutting the pipe and installing a bell adapter to increase the size to about double or quadruple the size of the pipe in the stand (i.e. if your stand is 1/2" pipe, I would go with 1 1/2" -2" pipe for the rest ;) )

The other thing i've been thinking about is TEE'ing in a short length of clear PVC to the top of the NHO so that it sticks straight up about an inch. This would be capped w/ a nickel plated brass lever air valve tapped into the cap. The purpose for this is to be able to see when air has accumulated in the NHO and then to be able to easily attach a short air tube w/ an air line check valve and suck out the evil air. Note that the clear PC would have a shroud over it to keep algae from growing on the inside.
I wouldn't bother using a brass valve (Brass may add to the copper in your water .... not good for fish ;) ) .... just go to your nearby LFS, and for about 2 bits, you can pick up a plastic airline check valve, drill an 1/8" hole in your siphon/overflow pipe, silicone the inflow end of the check valve into that hole, put your airline on the outflow end of the check valve, and whenever you want to get rid of an air bubble or two, just suck on it and remove the air....... This advice concerning that ....... 1) make sure the check valve is aimed the right direction to remove the air, if it's the kind we get in the Billlings PetSmart, they are clear, and the valve inside looks like a reed on an oboe - an upside-down 'v' - when it's pointed like an upside-down 'v' when mounted on the pipe, you should be able to suck air thru the 'v' end, in other words, the point of the 'v' goes away from the pipe, and the other two ends of the 'v' go in toward the pipe - test this before installing) ....... 2) don't let the airline hang down so's it will allow it to become a siphon hose, put a loop in it, above the pipe ;) ......... 3) don't suck on it so hard that you end up swallowing the dirty fish water :lol: :lol: :lol:

Think this would work?

I seriously don't think so, not the way it's drawn, but if redrawn, remembering that water always seeks it's own level .......! I like the concept of removing the crap off the bottom, but I think it needs re-designing ;) NOTE: ...... I have been wrong once or twice in my life :roll: :roll:

jackalope
05-15-2009, 02:45 PM
Here's an updated image of the more complete model.

Note: the support bricks are displayed in wireframe below the GBs.

Soon i'll start my own thread about my system and will include links to the 3D models.

OK, ernie, if I see it right, I think you've got a good looking setup there and I'm getting jealous ;). You're just using the no-holes to siphon the muck off the bottom of the FT, and equalize the levels between the FT and the Sump ...... you pump out of the sump to the GBs and then return to the FT ...... looks good to me ..... I like the way you think :!: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: That's giving me ideas about putting in a bottom collector to take the crap off my FT and into a sump to get rid of the solids, then pump out of the sump into the GBs. For my filter material in my Cascade, I don't buy their expensive 'cartridges, I buy the carbon in bulk, and for filter floss, I go to Walmart in the fabrics dept., and buy a big 20 oz. bag of "Premium Polyester Fiberfill" for about $4.00 and change, and get a no-frames furnace filter for the top ...... works good, but it's not cleanable so you have to keep replacing it, unlike "bio-beads" or other commercial products that are washable ;). :idea: I'm thinking I could build one of badflash's filters using fiberfill instead of beads, drop the filtered water into a sump using the bell siphon, and pump out of that to the GBs. Thanks for the ideas ;) ..... to do all this I would have to re-design my FT and GBs, but I'm wondering if it will be easier to just build a whole new system and tear out the old one ......... :roll: :roll:

wolfracer
05-15-2009, 05:39 PM
That is going to be a nice design. Looking forward to pictures! Love the 3d modeling.

tayl0r
05-15-2009, 08:26 PM
It's not prompting me to install the active x control. I'm using IE 7 with security set to lower than the default (I even specifically enabled "prompt for unsigned active x controls")

tayl0r
05-15-2009, 08:37 PM
How do you ensure that the siphon never gets broken? If it does get broken, wouldn't your FT overflow?