AP System Design

[jmalone68]

Hello All,
I'm about to launch into building my AP system here in Phoenix AZ.
Attached is my current system design.

I'd really value any input, comments, criticisms and suggestions before I take the plunge.
The fish tank will be sunk into the ground by 12-14".

Regards,
John

[rfeiller]

with the supply from the fish tank into the swirl filter near the bottom, if you have a power failure or equipment malfunction the contents of the swirl filter will siphon back into the fish tank, won't it?

[Oliver]

In order for you to move fish solids from the fish tank, you will need a high enough velocity in the pipe from the pump to the bio-filter to keep the particles suspended for the trip. One way to do this is to pump more water into your bio-filter than is needed by your grow beds. The extra can be returned to the fish tank from an overflow near the top of your bio-filter, thereby adding DO to your fish tank water on its splash down. This would require a more powerful pump than the minimum now required in your drawing. The grow-bed outlets would need to be placed lower than your overflow port and control valves for each grow bed would be required in order to meter the water and adjust the siphon timing.

I agree with rfeiller that when your pump is off, the water etc. from your bio-filter will flow back into your fish tank. One way to solve that is to run the pump plumbing all the way to the top of the bio-filter and enter it from there. You will need a stand-pipe/siphon break at the highest point in the run. The pipe entering the bio-filter tank from above should run all the way down near the bottom of the bio-filter tank. That way it can deposit its cargo near the tank's bottom and the cleaner processed fluid can exit near the top and feed the grow beds. Another way is to add a check valve in the pump line. Check valves, when dirty, often leak.

Oliver

[urbanfarmer]

Nice schematic! Keep up the good work :mrgreen:

[davidstcldfl]

Hi John, 1st...welcome to the forum.
2nd....nice drawing ... :mrgreen: It looks well thought out.. :)

Of course, pumping the solids will break them up. This could cut down on the effectiveness of the swirl. I do see, you also have it labeled as a bio-filter. I'm guessing you'll have netting or something inside, to help catch some of the solids. (?)

You probably already thought of it, just not in the drawing (?)....... add a bulkhead to the very bottom of the swirl and add a drain.

You may consider building a stand for the swirl, where it's not over the tank, or not as much. I think you'll like having more access to the tank...easier to see the fish and to catch them too.

OK...we are waiting on 'lots of' pictures of your build.... :D
David

[keith_r]

looks good, but does the "deck" that the filter sit on move? (for access to your fish)

[JCO]

Welcome to the show....pull up an easy chair, relax and stay awhile. New voices are always a welcome addition to our family..! Whatever questions you have on you mind, this is the place to get the answers so pick a topic of your interest and start your own thread and Enjoy. Please go to your profile and put in the city and state where you live. There might be other members close to you. :mrgreen:

[jmalone68]

Firstly, WOW!
It didn't take long to receive a bunch of really good feedback, and a lot of things I hadn't thought about.
Thanks very much!

@rfeiller : I hadn't thought about the siphon effect from the swirl filter. Good point. Hmmmm.
I'm trying to think if this will be a problem. The full capacity of the fish tank is 540 gallons. Every inch of height is about 15 gallons. Currently my swirl filter is going to be <30 gallons so having it drain back into the fish tank would raise the level by less than two inches, which shouldn't cause an overflow as I don't anticipate filling the fish tank that full.

However, as Oliver suggested, some nifty plumbing would get around the problem and I wouldn't have to worry about it.

@Oliver : Pump capacity planning is something that I'm really not up to speed on. I'm currently looking at the QuietOne Pump range ( http://www.aquaticeco.com/subcategories/2323/Quiet-One-Pumps ) either model QP13 or QP14. Maybe the extra $20 on the QP14 is worth it to give me the higher volumes needed for flexibility and later additions. Any pump suggestions and recommendations would be VERY gratefully received.

@urbanfarmer : Thanks for the encouragement!

@davidstcldfl : The swirl/bio filter would be along the lines as detailed here: http://www.ecofilms.com.au/2010/08/20/diy-swirl-filter-for-aquaponics/.
Yes, I would put a drain in the center of the bottom of the filter with a valve to drain out the back every couple of days, depending on collection quantities. (Drawing pipes in Sketchup is something I'm still slow at so I left it out)

@keith_r : What the sketch doesn't show is that I intend to have the front half of the 'deck' hinged so that it will open up and give me about 2' x 2' access to the fish tank. That mightn't be enough. Thoughts anyone? I could always move the grow beds out some more and give a larger area in the middle, but one of my design intentions was to make this relatively compact and not take over ALL of the backyard.

A variation to this design is to rotate one or both of the grow beds by 90 degrees to fit in a corner or a squarer location, rather than a long rectangle. I haven't really decided on that, but it doesn't really change the basic design apart from some longer plumping.

I'm having some internal debate as to whether I need the swirl/bio filter at all, at least in the initial implementation.
Stage 1 : the fish tank and one grow bed
Stage 2 : Add the second grow bed
Stage 3 : Add the swirl/bio filter
Stage 4 : Add a floating raft system between the filter and a grow bed
and the modifications go on..... :D

And yes, I'll be taking photos!
Thanks again all,
John

[keith_r]

2' may be a little tight but should work.... what kind of fish will you use, have you checked out any nets? (it would have to fit the opening, then have room to manuever.

[jmalone68]

2' may be a little tight but should work.... what kind of fish will you use, have you checked out any nets? (it would have to fit the opening, then have room to manuever.

Hello Keith,
Tilapia is my current choice mostly because they are hardy and like it hot, and here in Phoenix we do hot really well!

I'll noodle on it a bit and see if I can't increase the access hole some. The positioning of the grow beds is totally arbitrary so there's no reason I can't make the access hatch significantly larger.

As far as nets go, I haven't even thought that far. I drew up this sketch to get an idea of the cost of materials and the overall dimensions. I was originally going to do an IBC system but figured that the resultant grow bed size wouldn't be appropriate and would frustrate me quickly by being too small. As designed, my system is comparable in cost to a couple of IBCs and I can build it the way I like it. IBCs seem to be great for ease of setup and handling, but they still look like IBCs and a bit too industrial for me. I suppose I could pretty them up some, but it doesn't grab me. And besides, I have a table saw that is super fun to work on, and I'd love the excuse to make some more sawdust!

Cheers

[urbanfarmer]

I look forward to the photos! :D

[Oliver]

John,

As many here know, I am an advocate for simplicity. What I would do to change your design would be to eliminate the swirl/bio-filter, run the water pump lines directly to the grow beds through control valves. Return the extra water from the pump to the fish tank under pressure through a reduced (end cap with drilled hole) outlet, thereby jetting some water back into the fish tank for added aeration. This modified arrangement will require ample pumping power. You will need the extra water flow in order to purge the lines running to the grow beds every few days to remove accumulated fish solids by fully opening the valves to the grow beds.

Be sure to use ball valves and not gate valves. We have learned that even though gate valves give you a finer increment of adjustment when setting the flow into the grow beds, they don't remain where you set them; and they are more expensive. With ball valves, the flow remains constant as long as the pressure doesn't change.

Make sure that your grow beds (and now bio-filters) are 12 inches deep and filled with media (I prefer Hydroton, but gravel will work) to allow the fish solids to break down over time in the grow beds. This will give your plants extra nutrients and reduce your work load and wasted water. For this to work, it requires ample aeration.

This design is all spelled out in Aquaponics 101, located on this forum, including sizing your air and water pumps.

It is important that your fish tank receives ample light, as Tilapia do better with light. Do not be concerned with algae growth in the fish tank from the light, for the Tilapia will eat it unless they are being over fed.

Oliver

[jmalone68]

Thanks for all the good info Oliver,

You've pretty much confirmed the path I should take. My original design didn't include the filter and I'll give it a pass unless I need it down the track. e.g. I want to 'overstock' with fish.
Good to know about the ball valves.
My grow bed design is 12" so that matches you comments. Nice!
Good to know about the light requirements too. I don't think that will be a problem here in AZ as we have PLENTY of light. I am concerned about the water getting too hot here, thus the shading by the grow beds and also one reason for sinking the fish tank in to the ground.

I've read hours and hours of forums and how-tos, and I think it's about time to start piecing some lumber together.

Once again,
Thanks

[HotPonics]

Hot damn!

That's some serious AP Pron right there!

Simple and cheap, every DIY'ers dream ;)

[rfeiller]

welcome hotponics to the forum

[HotPonics]

welcome hotponics to the forum

Thanks much!
Looking forward to getting going on my own setup.

Currently on hold till I've moved into our new home, but am living vicariously through my bud John :D

[jmalone68]

Hello All,

I'm nearing completion of the construction stage of my AP system and have a couple of questions.

1) Does anyone know where do to get fish-safe pond liner in Phoenix, AZ area at a decent price? I need 15' x 20'

2) Do you have a preference for a pump. I'm looking at a Quiet One 3000.
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=23814

All input greatly appreciated.
John

[Bioritize]

I recommend the Danner pumps. The MD 12 only uses about 70 watts.

http://www.aquaticeco.com/subcategories/126/Mag-Drive-Pump-250-gph-24W You can find them here.

[stucco]

Home depot has EPDM liners by the foot.
+1 on the danner pump. The quiet one 3000 is junk.

[foodchain]

Anybody know whatever came out of this? Would be nice to see an update.

[jmalone68]

Anybody know whatever came out of this? Would be nice to see an update.

I finally got to the point of digging an 18" hole to drop the fish tank in, got the foundations blocks set, pump and pond liner bought and then everything came to a screeching halt.

Why?
It looks like we'll be moving house in a month, so there's no point in trying to start the AP system only to have to tear it down before it was cycled.

Drat and bother! I'm starting to despair of every growing anything.

But I'm still in the game, just sitting on the sidelines for the next few weeks.

Cheers,
John

[foodchain]

Moving is always a headache. don't envy you at all.
I dread the day when I have to 'clean up' enough to sell. I don't think a buyer would understand my operation at all.