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Bioritize
07-22-2011, 09:49 AM
eALh9hr7VIA

Hey Guys,

I have updated my video, though I said a few things that were incorrect in the video. I have a couple questions.

I added 4 small fish to the tank from the pet store, pladids or something like that.

Right now this is the condition of my water.

Temp - 75 F
PH - 7
Ammonia - 8 ppm
Nitrite - 0 ppm
Nitrate - 40 ppm

I have not fed the fish since yesterday and I am hoping the Ammonia levels will fall. Is this normal for a system as it starts up? Is there anything I can do to make sure the ammonia levels do not kill the fish? I added a bottle of Stress Zyme a couple days ago and a bit more last night.

I also was hoping that with the way this system is working I could avoid using an aerator. What do you guys think?

Oliver
07-22-2011, 11:29 AM
For now, stopping the feeding of your fish is the best bet. Adding Stress Zyme at this point doesn't do much good for it will only create more ammonia when it converts the solid waste.

Just as a note, I recently learned that chloramines in the water (city water from the tap) show up as ammonia when using your test kit. I recently saw a post that had high ammonia from the tap. That may have been chloramine, which can only be removed via a filter designed to do just that.

Check the water you are putting into your system and, if it is clean, then you may need to do a water exchange. The ammonia is too high and if it were me, I would (and have) have done a water exchange by now in order to get the ammonia down below 1 ppm.

Oliver

Bioritize
07-22-2011, 01:52 PM
I tested my tap water for ammonia and it came up negative. I drained about 10 gallons or so out and replaced with 10 gallons I had sitting around for a week or so.

I have a Brita filter for drinking water that I could easily set up in the orange bucket, would that be a good or bad idea?

What puzzles me is the nitrates in the water without the presence of nitrites.

Thanks,

rfeiller
07-22-2011, 02:38 PM
a lot of water districts have high nitrate levels due to aggi runoff and perculation. usually if that is the case there should have been a letter warning pregnant and nursing mothers to not drink the water. are you on a well or municipal?

if the bond is broken between the chlorine and the ammonia in chlorimines the ammonia will be released. this can happen if a
GAC filter's carbon is to weak to attract the chlorimines as a unit or a chlorine neutralizer is used that is not capable of neutralizing the ammonia. an API test kit can handle it. i'm not sure about some of the others giving false readings. the bottle of neutralizer should tell you.

Bioritize
07-22-2011, 03:45 PM
I am on local city water, just tested it;

Ph 8.8
Amonia 0 ppm
Nitirite 0 ppm
Nitrate 40-80 ppm

That is an insane Ph.

I have the master test kit that test ph, high ph, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. I don't have a neutralizer. I have not used any chlorine neutralizers, I just let the water sit for a week or so, and some of it I ran through my Brita filter.

Can I hook the brita to my system and let it filter all the water for a while? Will that hurt my efforts to colonize the bacteria?

rfeiller
07-22-2011, 04:27 PM
The filter won't hurt your system. Ask for a water analysis from your water supplier they have to give it too you.
Ask them the source of the high nitrates.
The pH will come down as the system ages. Don't add acid or pH down yet.

Bioritize
07-22-2011, 06:11 PM
Water report here, http://www.dmww.com/WaterQuality.aspx#Water

They say the Ph is 9.6 ?????

Wow. I cannot believe the water quality, my nitrate test says 80 ppm or close to it.

urbanfarmer
07-22-2011, 06:39 PM
You don't need the fish then, LOL!

Oliver
07-23-2011, 12:24 AM
Interesting posts.

I agree, with nitrates that high, who needs fish. Wish my nitrates were coming in like that. Not really, for that might be hazardous to your health. Not saying it is, but it would concern me.

As for the pH, the good news is the autotrophic bacteria really like it high; but it is starting to look like you may not have any. It is only a guess, but I would purchase some starter bacteria and add it to your system. Keep doing a water exchange to get your ammonia level down to below 1.0 ppm.

The one thing that you have not measured here is dissolved oxygen, for if it is not high enough, the bacteria won't multiply. I know, a DO meter is expensive, so make sure you have lots of spray-back water into your fish tank and ample aeration via aerators, especially if your water is warm; for warm water will drive out DO.

This is a puzzle you have presented here. Remember, shake the number two bottle of nitrate solution for two minutes before adding to your vile. Otherwise, it can give you false readings. Then let the well shaken mixture set for about 15 to 20 minutes to settle out and complete its color change.

Keep us posted on your progress.

Oliver

Bioritize
07-23-2011, 12:35 AM
I put the filter in line with the system to help filter the ammonia.

So should I replace the tank water with this city water? I was worried about big swings in PH, with the little fish in here. But I guess if the ammonia kills them we are in a greater evil scenario.

Should I let new water set for a while to help evaporate the chlorine.

I have made sure I shake the ammonia bottle #2, the ppm test is going all the way to the green it may be more than 8 ppm.

How much exactly is a DO test, and perhaps I should go out and get a air stone and pump.

The water temp is around 75 F. I just tested the ammonia again it is 8 ppm right now. Should I continue with the water change, if so should I filter the water or let it set first?

davidstcldfl
07-23-2011, 08:50 AM
Should I let new water set for a while to help evaporate the chlorine.
Your water report shows they are using ' chloramines '....It doesn't eveaporate (quickly) like chlorine does... :( If I remeber, it takes 'weeks' for it to break down (?)

Also, I thought I read a report, where they claimed you could pre-treat water that had chloramines, by adding a good amount of chlorine to it. The chlorine supposedly helped break down the chloramines quicker... :?:
Anyone else read or hear of this...?

Bioritize
07-23-2011, 10:31 AM
The Wiki says I can add Chlorine or Hydrochloric acid to remove the chloramine.

"Chloramine can be removed from tap water by treatment with superchlorination (10 ppm or more of free chlorine, such as from a dose of sodium hypochlorite bleach or pool sanitizer) while maintaining a pH of about 7 (such as from a dose of hydrochloric acid). Hypochlorous acid from the free chlorine strips the ammonia from the chloramine, and the ammonia outgasses from the surface of the bulk water. This process takes about 24 hours for normal tap water concentrations of a few ppm of chloramine. Residual free chlorine can then be removed by exposure to bright sunlight for about 4 hours."

It also says;

"Home brewers use reducing agents such as sodium metabisulfite or potassium metabisulfite to remove chloramine from brewing liquor as it, like chlorine, it can be removed by boiling, however boil time to reduce chloramine to a terminal measurement is longer.[12] Residual sodium can cause off flavors in beer (See Brewing, Michael Lewis) so potassium metabisulfite is preferred."

Is this the right way to go? How else would I clean this water?

rfeiller
07-23-2011, 11:02 AM
a good GAC filter is the best for chlorimines. it doesn't add other substances to the water. there is a certain amount of contact time required for the GAC (granular activated carbon) to adsorb, not absorb the chlorimines as a unit. you do have to monitor the water to determine how long you can use the gac filter before replacement. GAC also will remove other unwanted substances from your water.

Bioritize
07-23-2011, 11:51 AM
Sounds good,

I will leave this brita filter in line of the system to help filter this water, I think that the chloramides are causing the high ammonia readings. The fish seem to be very happy, though a bit hungry. The water is also very clear now.

I will test the levels again tonight and report back, perhaps with a few pictures.

They also add Floride to my water :( :(

rfeiller
07-23-2011, 12:14 PM
feed a little bit of food at a time, a starved fish is open to disease, realize the direct correlation between food and ammonia.

Bioritize
07-24-2011, 11:25 AM
I have been using the GAC filter, though this process is extremely slow.

I just tested my ammonia again and we are still around 8 pmm, slightly lighter than the last test.

Should I change this water out for tap water? Perhaps I should set out some rain buckets and collect that water instead of this tap crap.

Oliver
07-24-2011, 07:34 PM
My guess here is that you have a DO problem. I didn't notice or see in your video any water being jetted from your pump back into the fish tank. And, without any other aeration I will bet that you don't have enough DO in your water. Without it, the bacteria cannot grow or do their job.

I suggest that you read the part about DO in Aquaponics 101. It is mentioned throughout the series of articles, the reason for its necessity and how to get it.

You do need to filter out any chlorine and chloramines from your tap water before you put it in the fish tank. I don't think the Britta is the right way to go; although, it is better than nothing.

It would appear that you have taken some short cuts here and are paying the price.

Oliver

Bioritize
07-24-2011, 08:23 PM
Agreed,

I will go out and get an air pump and stones tomorrow. I tested the nitrites and my levels have risen to .25 ppm which is a good sign.

When I built this thing I didn't realize how much of the system uses the 0xygen and tried to cut corners.

Do you have recommendations on different filters?

Edit: Just bought an air filter with 2 6" air stones. I have the ability to add more if I need it. I talked with the people at the pet store and they all run their tank water through RO systems. I do not have the budget for this item just yet. I am hoping I can get this thing under control without the use of that $300 piece of equipment.

How long will it take to bring the DO levels up? A couple days, hours?

I will post another update in a day or so on the water quality. Fish are still doing fine.

Bioritize
07-25-2011, 07:35 PM
Water Test,

Ph 7
ammonia 8 ppm maxed my scale out
Nitrite close to approaching .25 ppm but not quite 0
Nitrate 80 ppm

Water Temp 75 F

Installed two 6" air stones. Without buying an RO system what would be a good filtration for this crappy municipal water? Are those Ceramic stones any good, it looks like I could buy just the stones for pretty cheap. (http://www.amazon.com/Rio-2000-Replacem ... B001YG9GBS (http://www.amazon.com/Rio-2000-Replacement-Filters-Including/dp/B001YG9GBS))

Oliver
07-25-2011, 11:00 PM
I need to make this quick.

I would not suggest using an RO system for filtration, for it will remove all of your minerals and alkalizing stablizers.

Oliver

Bioritize
07-26-2011, 01:46 PM
Thanks Oliver,

I will start Carbon filtering the water I use to replace this stuff.


I tested water again today,

Ph 7
Ammonia fell to 4 ppm
Nitrites .25 ppm
Nitrates 80 ppm

Looks like the DO is helping bring this into balance. I also ordered 4' of the air tube to add to the grow bed. Got the light up last night and put a couple seeds in here of some greens to use this free nitrate.... haha.

Bioritize
07-31-2011, 11:45 AM
Hey Guys,

[youtube:y79b6haw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_CbR_DFA9E[/youtube:y79b6haw]

I posted a little video for your enjoyment.

The system seems like it is beginning to cycle.

Water Quality:

ph 7
ammonia 4 pmm
Nitrite 2 pmm
Nitrate 80 - 160 pmm

I have seen a nitrite surge this week, on Monday it started at .25 ppm and today it is around 2 pmm. I hope this means that my bacteria are starting to do their work. Now to get the Nitrosomonas to start working for me.

I put some veggies in the bed to help use some of these free nitrates, which came from my most terrible tap water.

On that note, I have been looking around for a good water filtration system and I have found these ceramic filters. (http://www.monolithic.com/stories/a-pra ... ter-filter (http://www.monolithic.com/stories/a-practical-life-sustaining-water-filter)). I wondered if anyone had any experience with these? If not, what do you guys use to filter shitty tap water? The cloramine is what I am concerned about mostly.

I am currently slowly filtering water with a painfully slow Brita filter. I have been doing about 5 gallons at a time then changing out 5 gallons from the fish tank to try and fight this high ammonia I have going on.

I also think I need to add one more grow bed to this system and probably remove the silly "pre-filter" buckets.

Any advice is welcome.

Bioritize
08-01-2011, 12:05 PM
Water Quality

Ammonia 8 ppm
Nitrite 5 ppm

:o


Woke up today and tested water again, looks like the ammonia and nitrite are maxed. My problem right now is I do not have enough filtered/clean water to change the water out. My question again is what to do with terrible initial water quality?

What kind of filters do you guys recommend?

Should I go out and buy some distilled water to do a water change? Would 25% water change be good or should I go more?

keith_r
08-01-2011, 01:05 PM
the water changes may be part of the problem if the chloramines aren't being completely removed,
i thought i read that you already have fish, if so, don't feed them, or feed very little until the levels drop or it will only get worse..
"distilled" water may be ok, but it you may want to run a bubbler in it prior to adding to the fish tank for 24 hours, distilled water will have very low DO

Bioritize
08-02-2011, 08:48 PM
I just noticed that the blocks I used to elevate the grow bed above the tank are treated wood. I wonder if this is causing the water quality issues. Either way I am pulling everything and draining the tank completely. I will build a table and do this properly using all filtered water this time. I will update with pictures tomorrow when I get it done.

I hope this is my issue as my ammonia and nitrate are now completely maxed, I mean dark.

Thanks guys,

Bioritize
08-04-2011, 02:15 PM
Hey Guys,

Updated Video [youtube:u4j50qe7]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_IOXHzC_gc[/youtube:u4j50qe7]

I did a massive water change yesterday and moved the block off the tank and replaced with a table. I plan to add a second grow bed to this system in the next couple days.

The water quality update;

Ph 7
Ammonia 1 ppm :D
Nitrite 5 pmm plus :shock:
Nitrate 80 ppm

Temp 75

Looks like the ammonia is coming into balance and I hope that the nitrite processing bacteria are working on the nitrites. I hope that this thing will be ready to roll in a couple weeks. I have 25 fingerlings on the way in about 4 - 6 weeks, hope this is enough time. I regret pulling the plants but I didn't want to take any chances with the green wood.

Oliver
08-04-2011, 02:39 PM
You may not have enough dissolved oxygen. That would affect your bacteria growth. If that is the case, then adding another grow bed might help if it is flood and drain. If, however, you add more fish at the same time, then you will be right back where you started.

What is the timing on your flood and drain cycle in your current grow bed? The more often you cycle your grow bed (up to a point), the more DO you will have in your system.

Also, as bacteria wastes increase (be it Nitrites or Nitrates), the bacteria have a harder time reproducing. This is why ample DO is so important.

Oliver

Bioritize
08-04-2011, 07:47 PM
Hey Oliver,

The bed is cycling about every 3 minutes or about 20 times per hour. I have a couple Airfuse tubes on the way that I plan to add to the tank and the bottom of the second grow bed.

Thanks,

Madmax478
08-06-2011, 06:30 AM
Do you have access to some Revers Osmosis water? I was chatting with a fellow that did water test for Our local city water and he admitted to me that they add 1ppm ammonia to the local water supply to keep the chlorimines in the water longer. I wasn't able to get proper ammonia readings until I switch to using RO water.

Oliver
08-06-2011, 09:43 AM
Cycling every 3 minutes may not allow enough time for the oxygen to penetrate the water. You may want to reduce your grow bed water input flow so as to increase the amount of time the wetted surface area of the media and plant roots have to absorb the oxygen. This will allow time for the oxygen from the air to reach the attached autotrophic bacteria. I am not clear on what the optimum time is for this, so if anyone here has some info on that then please chime in. We use a 15 minute cycle and it seems to work well. You may have to re-size your siphons in order to make a large change in your cycle timing. You also may want to use some of that extra pumping power, once you reduce your grow bed flow, to jet back some water into your fish tank to improve your dissolved oxygen.

We have an incoming water pH of 7.6. As our fish density has increased, we find the system water heading for a pH of 6. If we allow it to drop much below 7.0 we find the ammonia levels start to climb. By adding Potassium Hydroxide, it brings the pH back up and the ammonia levels then decrease to a low level. Our incoming water is already high in calcium, and as we live in a dry climate, it evaporates leaving behind the calcium and other minerals. The plants do a good job of removing these minerals as our total dissolved solids seem to be stable. This is with the mineralization of the fish waste solids, as well.

As for using an RO system, we tried that in order to reduce our pH but found that it was too effective in removing the desired minerals from the water including alkalizing stabilizers. It made our pH very unstable and in the end, we found it to be unnecessary and undesirable. If you have a very high pH, say 8 or above, then you might want to mix some RO water with your otherwise filtered tap water, which will reduce your alkalizing stabilizers eventually helping to bring down your pH; but I am becoming more convinced that a higher pH, which is better for bacteria growth, is important in a high fish density system. Some plants, however, may not take well to a high pH water.

We found that a catalytic carbon filter, which removes most chlorine and chloramines, is adequate for filtering our city water.

Oliver

Bioritize
08-06-2011, 11:09 AM
Great advice guys thanks and keep it coming.

Here is another update

[youtube:2zmy8y7n]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNm3JxemGUM[/youtube:2zmy8y7n]

I think that the reason I have had so much trouble with this system is that I did not filter the original 50 gallons of water I used to start the system. Therefore I have been battling to remove the chloramines from the water for the first month or so. Now that I have replaced most of this water with filtered water and added a large amount of aeration, I hope to see this system begin to balance.

Water Quality Update:

Ph 7.2
ammonia 0 ppm
Nitrite 5 ppm
Nitrate 160 ppm

It looks like I am beginning to get bacteria action. I have a larger flow GAC filter that hooks to my hose on the way. The RO system is a bit out of my budget at the moment. How do you guys feel about the ceramic filter systems?

My issue with the bell siphons right now is that they require a large amount of flow to get the siphon to start. How do you modify the siphon to work with lower flow rates? Do I find a larger funnel or reducer for the standpipe or alter the down spout somehow?

After adding the second GB my siphon's are running once every 5 minutes and they both seem to stay at the full level for at least a minute before they siphon can start.

Seems like I am getting somewhere and the fish are still all alive. :mrgreen:

davidstcldfl
08-06-2011, 02:20 PM
My issue with the bell siphons right now is that they require a large amount of flow to get the siphon to start. How do you modify the siphon to work with lower flow rates? Do I find a larger funnel or reducer for the standpipe or alter the down spout somehow?
Aren't you already using Affnan's standpipe/bells ? If you are.....
The 1st thing to try is, 'what you said'.... go to a bigger 'top' section on the stand pipe.
If that doesn't work... reduce the size of the 'bottom' of the stand pipe.
Worst case...you may need to reduce all of the drain pipe, including the bottom section of your stand pipe.

I bought bell reducers, like Affnan uses here....
http://flexpvc.com/cart/agora.cgi?produ ... s-Reducing (http://flexpvc.com/cart/agora.cgi?product=PVC-Couples-Reducing)

Oliver
08-06-2011, 02:37 PM
With the exception of your Nitrites being high, your water chemistry looks good. I think it is time you planted your grow beds.

As for your siphon problem, my guess is that your stand pipe may be too large. I looked back through your posts and didn't see anything about the size of your grow beds (may have just missed it) but let me give you some numbers from my experiments way back when I was first trying to design a siphon that would cycle in about 15 minutes. For a 10 sq ft grow bed I started with a 3/4 inch stand pipe but found that, like you, I needed to have my flow rate high in order to get it to start siphoning. That made the cycle less than 10 minutes. I reduced the stand pipe to 1/2 inch and in doing so I found I could slow the water and by adjusting it I could time the cycle from about 10 to 20 minutes, right where I wanted it. By placing a down pipe below the grow bed of several inches, still at 1/2 inch, it helped drain the grow bed at a faster rate.

Now, with the Affnan reducer design, the siphon should start to cycle at a lower water flow rate than with a straight pipe. We have upgraded our siphon design to include his reducer stand pipe. I have not tested it to see if it works as advertised but it didn't adversely affect our siphons. His research looks solid and for the time being, I will accept his findings.

For different sizes of grow bed, you will need to adjust the stand pipe size (cross sectional area) accordingly.

Oliver

Bioritize
08-06-2011, 06:24 PM
[youtube:otswfhj4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NijF_e-qdkc[/youtube:otswfhj4]

I might as well do a video its just as easy as posting a bunch of pictures.

My grow beds are 27" x 18" x 10", I would like to have made them deeper but I cut the first bed before I found this site. :oops:

The input lines are all 1/2" and the drain; stand pipe was 1", just changed to 1/2" and the output is still 1" with two 90 degree elbows.

It seems to be working wonderfully after changing out the two stand pipes to 1/2" with the 1" - 1/2" reducer as the bell.

With all your tips and advice I think this thing is tuned up and ready to go. I have sprouts after only 3 days. Fish should be here in a few weeks I am ordering a hybrid strain of White Nile Tilapia Oreochromis Niloticus from http://tilapiasource.com/zc/ to start with. Unless you guys have any other recommendations for starter fish. Ideally I would like to use this setup as a breeder tank(If I can get them to breed in such a small tank or fry tank if that does not work.

I am not sure if I will be moving out of this state to a farm and have put my larger system plans on hold for a bit. Although I do have another 55 gal fish tank that is just sitting idle. I wonder if there is a way to add that tank to this system?

All your suggestions seem to have worked, thank you zen masters of Aquaponics!! :mrgreen:

Edit: Changed the outlet pipes on the grow beds to 1/2" also this greatly increased the siphon start ability and now I am able to lower the input of water and therefore increase the time it takes to cycle each grow bed to 12-15 min each bed. Thanks Guys!!

Madmax478
08-07-2011, 09:53 AM
Looking at my notes it appears that I have been using half RO water and half carbon filter city tap water. Works for me.

cedarswamp
08-07-2011, 10:41 AM
If you're going to use the white Nile small fingerlings you'll have about 10 weeks before even the 55 gallon will become to small. I'm in that boat, currently looking at a 110 gallon stock tank to finish my grow out, Gonna leave about 4 or 5 in the 55 gallon to try to breed them. Currently I have 2 males that have each claimed an end of the tank and the other 22 are stuck in the middle getting abused any time they venture to close to the males territory.


edit: The white niles aren't a hybrid, they're just a color strain of nile tilapia.

Bioritize
08-07-2011, 12:23 PM
Hmm, perhaps I should begin working on phase 2 a 150 gallon system or so.

I could use this for the fish tank
http://www.acehardwareoutlet.com/productdetails.aspx?sku=7015571&source=GoogleBase

2 or 3 Grow beds
http://www.katom.com/007-FG424300BLA.html?cid=googlebase%20&zmam=29342707&zmas=1&zmac=1&zmap=007-fg424300bla

That puts the cost at $325 for the containers, probably closer to $500 when all is done. Any other options out there, how well do the barrels work with the sloped/shallow sides?

I am thinking about a Chop2 system, http://www.aquaponics.net.au/ChopMk2.html

keith_r
08-08-2011, 05:51 AM
i've been using blue barrels cut in half lengthwise, everything grows ok, but it takes up to much space for the amount of filtration provided..
i'm still trying to find some IBC's to cut in half for my growbeds, when i do, i'll be using an 8' pool for my ft..
this year any additions to the barrel system might be a bust, to much goin on.. but i hope that i can get some of it done this fall for a trout trial (it's all in my basement)

Bioritize
08-14-2011, 10:18 PM
Hey Guys,

Wanted to give you an update so I did another video.
[youtube:1re5mcbm]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UWG6XTQpfY[/youtube:1re5mcbm]
I ran through the system again for anyone who has not seen it. Very simple 40 gallon fish tank on the bottom with two 5 gallon buckets as filters and 2 27 x 19 x 10 grow beds that are flood and drain.

Basically I am using the fish tank as the sump and the filters in the position I should have the tanks. Oh well, you learn as you go. I am going to use this as a fry tank and I am in the process of building a small 150 gal system using those Rubbermaid stock tanks.

I am going to use a 55 gall fish tank as the sump then use a 150 gall stock tank for the FT and 3 50 gallon tanks for the grow beds. I plan to use the Chop2 system for this next one. I hope to be able to grow out about 50 lbs of fish in this system using the 3 gallons to 1 lbs ratio.

Anyway, I want to thank all of you aquaponics Jedi's whom have posted so much valuable information.

Edit:

Water Quality

Ph is up to 7.6 :?
Ammonia 0 ppm
Nitrite 5 ppm
Nitrate 80 ppm

Should I adjust the ph at this point? Some of the small plants are a bit yellow and I think it is due to this high ph. The water I add to the system is around 7 - 8 after it goes through the filter. I believe this is why my ph has been climbing.

I also am thinking that this will begin to balance with more fish.

Bioritize
09-07-2011, 08:14 PM
Hey Dudes,

I talked with my water place, they say its only chlorine, then they add limestone and CO2 to increase PH.

Anyway the system is cycled,

PH 7.2
Ammonia 0 ppm
Nitrite 0 ppm
Nitrate 80 ppm

I have added 25 While Nile Tilapia to the tank, and this is a video update of the growth, which is amazing.

[youtube:wzid9k6l]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=my3sLKX2hYU[/youtube:wzid9k6l]

I believe I will need a tank I can let the fish grow out in, I am debating on the 150 gal rubbermaid tank with 3 (50 gallon) of the rubber maids for the grow beds. Prolly have under $1000 in a system like that and enough room to grow out 50 fish or so.

Anyway thanks for all your help guys. Any thoughts on my fish and their life cycles here would be appreciated, I do not think it will be ok for all of these guys to stay in this 40 gallon tank.

Madmax478
09-08-2011, 01:56 AM
"I believe I will need a tank I can let the fish grow out in, I am debating on the 150 gal rubbermaid tank with 3 (50 gallon) of the rubber maids for the grow beds. Prolly have under $1000 in a system like that and enough room to grow out 50 fish or so.

Anyway thanks for all your help guys. Any thoughts on my fish and their life cycles here would be appreciated, I do not think it will be ok for all of these guys to stay in this 40 gallon tank."

Bet you can build that for less than a 1000.00....The 40 gal tank would be ok I think for a breeder tank.
I was thinking of tying 3 100 or 150 gal rubbermaid stock (fish) tanks together with proper amount of grow beds. And starting with 25 to 35 fish in one tank and adding 25 to 35 in the next tank three months later and so on. Harvest 9 month old fish every three months. I don't want to grow more than we can eat and have it all ready to harvest at one time. What do you guys think. see any problems with that idea?

davidstcldfl
09-08-2011, 05:05 AM
Having different tanks, for different size fish is as great idea Madmax... :D
Like you said....have plenty of grow beds to support that many fish.

Madmax478
09-08-2011, 02:17 PM
I been reading about the amount of grow bed per size of fish tank and I getting different answer from different groups. I been using one gallon of fish tank to one gallon grow bed. But I'm hearing a different point of view. The other one I'm hearing is one sq foot of grow bed per one pound of fish in the system. So a 100 gallon system with 2 fifty gallon grow bed that I'm looking at has about 16 sq foot of grow space. That would come out to max of 16 pounds of Fish. The reason I was considering running three different tanks setup slave together were the tank with the smaller fish would have extra filtering available as the tank with the larger fish would be maxing out it filtering capacity.

stucco
09-08-2011, 02:52 PM
I follow a five gallon media per fish rule.

Bioritize
09-08-2011, 07:25 PM
I was under the impression that it was a 1:1 ratio for grow bed to fish tank based on the gallon capacity. Then the other ration was 1 lb of fish : 3 gallons of water. I believe that is more like a 1 fish per : 3 gallons grow bed.

So in my 40 gallon tank I could grow about to 2.5 lbs each or so. I think that is about what I had in mind using this as a breeder. I could keep four good females in here and pop and male in everyonce and a while to say 8-) :o :mrgreen:

urbanfarmer
09-09-2011, 07:07 AM
I was under the impression that it was a 1:1 ratio for grow bed to fish tank based on the gallon capacity. Then the other ration was 1 lb of fish : 3 gallons of water. I believe that is more like a 1 fish per : 3 gallons grow bed.

So in my 40 gallon tank I could grow about to 2.5 lbs each or so. I think that is about what I had in mind using this as a breeder. I could keep four good females in here and pop and male in everyonce and a while to say 8-) :o :mrgreen:
It's even more complicated than that... you have fish producing waste, microbes converting the waste into non-toxic and/or plant available products, and you have plants absorbing these products... but there are simplified ratios that only involve the grow bed space and the fish tank space at 1:1 or 1:2 ratios...

Madmax478
09-09-2011, 01:20 PM
I was under the impression that it was a 1:1 ratio for grow bed to fish tank based on the gallon capacity. Then the other ration was 1 lb of fish : 3 gallons of water. I believe that is more like a 1 fish per : 3 gallons grow bed.

So in my 40 gallon tank I could grow about to 2.5 lbs each or so. I think that is about what I had in mind using this as a breeder. I could keep four good females in here and pop and male in everyonce and a while to say 8-) :o :mrgreen:

I heard the 1:1 ratio to and up to 1:3. A lot of that has to do with number of Fish you want to stock. Also is you main focus Fish, Plants or Both. I'm not looking to go super high on either to much time required to do that. But that being said I would to get the most I can with the least amount of effort. I have found that general rules are just that general rules you tell people that don't want to understand more about what is really going on. That why people with higher stocking densities have more grow beds. It all about how much filtering you need to keep your water clean. That involves how many fish how many plants and how well you can use or remove the solids. It is a lot easier to make decisions on how to set thing up in the first place if you understand how and why they come up with these rules of thumb as applied to the way you intend to run your system.
A 300 gallon IBC tote system with 3 16sq foot grow beds with 100 tilapia isn't a problem until you have over 48 pound of fish in it. There assuming that about the time some of them will be big enough to start eating. 100 one pound tilapia will exceed the filtering capacity of this system in a very short time. If you do like they say and start harvesting fish as soon as they reach the 1 pound or plate size Fish this shouldn't be a problem. I just felt like I need to understand how they come up with there numbers and why. One detail I have found out from all my reading is Fish and Plants can be replace relative quickly but the bacteria can not. So when your thinking about whats best for the fish or what best for the plants DO NOT FORGET what best for the bacteria without these unseen guys NOTHING HAPPENS.

Oh I think that would make for a Happy Male Fish.... hehehe

urbanfarmer
09-09-2011, 02:47 PM
I was under the impression that it was a 1:1 ratio for grow bed to fish tank based on the gallon capacity. Then the other ration was 1 lb of fish : 3 gallons of water. I believe that is more like a 1 fish per : 3 gallons grow bed.

So in my 40 gallon tank I could grow about to 2.5 lbs each or so. I think that is about what I had in mind using this as a breeder. I could keep four good females in here and pop and male in everyonce and a while to say 8-) :o :mrgreen:

I heard the 1:1 ratio to and up to 1:3. A lot of that has to do with number of Fish you want to stock. Also is you main focus Fish, Plants or Both. I'm not looking to go super high on either to much time required to do that. But that being said I would to get the most I can with the least amount of effort. I have found that general rules are just that general rules you tell people that don't want to understand more about what is really going on. That why people with higher stocking densities have more grow beds. It all about how much filtering you need to keep your water clean. That involves how many fish how many plants and how well you can use or remove the solids. It is a lot easier to make decisions on how to set thing up in the first place if you understand how and why they come up with these rules of thumb as applied to the way you intend to run your system.
A 300 gallon IBC tote system with 3 16sq foot grow beds with 100 tilapia isn't a problem until you have over 48 pound of fish in it. There assuming that about the time some of them will be big enough to start eating. 100 one pound tilapia will exceed the filtering capacity of this system in a very short time. If you do like they say and start harvesting fish as soon as they reach the 1 pound or plate size Fish this shouldn't be a problem. I just felt like I need to understand how they come up with there numbers and why. One detail I have found out from all my reading is Fish and Plants can be replace relative quickly but the bacteria can not. So when your thinking about whats best for the fish or what best for the plants DO NOT FORGET what best for the bacteria without these unseen guys NOTHING HAPPENS.

Oh I think that would make for a Happy Male Fish.... hehehe
Yep, the bacteria actually feed the plants ;)

I have attached a document that is basic a calculator for all your backyard aquaponic needs! ENJOY! :mrgreen:

Bioritize
09-09-2011, 05:13 PM
THAT IS AWESOME!!! Thanks UF :D

My plan is to start a large commercial system to sell about 100 lbs of fish per month. I am in the process of moving to a place in Colorado where I can help my family setup a farm, using the Aquaponics as a year round revenue source as well as a possible fertilizer source for the rest of our endeavors.

But I will likely start smaller systems and build up to the larger system. The focus would be on the fish mainly but I would also likely offer lettuces and herbs, basil seems to do amazing in this system. I was also wanting to use these grow beds to quick start plants for outdoor planting in the spring to get a jump start on the process.

This first little system is just so I can get a handle on what is going on.

I suppose I need to do a bit more research on the bacteria and what things are needed to keep them alive. I know that they are what makes this thing tick, and to me is the proof positive that our planet will provide for those who pay attention and take care of her.

Madmax478
09-11-2011, 06:21 PM
THAT IS AWESOME!!! Thanks UF :D

My plan is to start a large commercial system to sell about 100 lbs of fish per month. I am in the process of moving to a place in Colorado where I can help my family setup a farm, using the Aquaponics as a year round revenue source as well as a possible fertilizer source for the rest of our endeavors.

But I will likely start smaller systems and build up to the larger system. The focus would be on the fish mainly but I would also likely offer lettuces and herbs, basil seems to do amazing in this system. I was also wanting to use these grow beds to quick start plants for outdoor planting in the spring to get a jump start on the process.

This first little system is just so I can get a handle on what is going on.

I suppose I need to do a bit more research on the bacteria and what things are needed to keep them alive. I know that they are what makes this thing tick, and to me is the proof positive that our planet will provide for those who pay attention and take care of her.

Assuming you could grow out 100 tilapia to 1 pound in 6 to 9 months that would mean you would have to have 600 to 900 fish going at anyone time. More likely a 1000 fish going. I'd find the market before I spent the money to build a system that big. But thats me. Using grow beds on a system that big would be too labor intensive IMHO. That a lot of fish poop to deal with. Then your problem would be selling all the produce not the fish. I think I read somewhere they get 7 or 8 pounds of produce to every pound of fish they get out of the system. I think if I were want that kinda of production or better I would look at Deep water culture system and have at least one or two hire hand too, so I could have a day off every now and then. Can't leave a system that big with that much invested in the hands of a rookie.
If you build a system that big I'd love to come see it....

Bioritize
09-11-2011, 09:13 PM
I will need to put in much more research to figure out what is actually feasible. My first thoughts were 9, 300 gallon tanks or one long tank with baffles that would allow me to separate the fish according to size. I would like to be able to make about $1000 a month on the system whatever size that may be.

My self and my two brothers are going to start a farm this next year and I need to have my plans finished by the end of this year to get started early. I believe we have a spot on the hill that is about 100' x 20' for a hoop house. There are also a few ponds nearby I would like to stock in the warmer months and harvest each fall.

Lots of ideas, just gotta get the plans down. Does anyone on here have a system going that they sell fish on any scale? What is the going rate per pound for your fish? How big is your system?

Bioritize
10-05-2011, 08:36 PM
Hey Guys,

Just an update from Iowa. I am moving to the sunny state of Colorado in November. I am building another system you can checkout here(Advice on training system design (http://www.diyaquaponics.com/forum/showthread.php?1180-Advice-on-training-system-design)). I will be selling all of the expanded shale, fish, lights and air pump to the company I am building the other system for.

Here is an updated video of the system's progress after exactly 60 days.

-Ot9YmPj4ng

I will post a video of the deconstruction process. As well as update the other post with some pictures and video of the new system.

My plan is to build an even larger system in Colorado, that I will try and bring up to a somewhat commercial level.

Until next time.