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jackalope
05-10-2009, 05:40 PM
All the info I read on BSF (Black Soldier Flies - Hermetia illucens) says that they will eat and process any kind of manure (some say the only exception is bovine and horse). Eventually, I intend to get some larvae (sold on the internet as "Phoenix Worms"), and try them out on cow dung. There are a lot of ranches hereabouts, so I think I could possibly get as much as I want for free ;). I read somewhere's, that you first turn all your garbage over to the BSFL, and after they get through with it, you turn the redworms loose on it and they finish processing it. From what I read a couple of places, they can reduce a 100 lb. pile of pig/goat/sheep/goose/duck/chicken dung and/or restaurant garbage to about 5 lbs. of castings in one day. Now, that's a load of crap, if you don't mind my saying so ...... I've definitely got to get some BSFL!

badflash
05-11-2009, 07:46 AM
Not only that, but they don't stink and won't go in your house, up your nose, or any of the other disgusting things that most flies do.

Don't worry about using those self-harvesting bins. It is easy to catch large larvae by putting some damp dog food in a colander. Fish like the larvae better than the pupa, and you get lots more.

It is a great use of what is left over after you fillet the fish. The run-off can be used just like worm tea, but there is enough in a large system that you might try to generate methane with it first in a digester.

The need to be warm, and they need natural light to mate. To date no one has bred them with artificial light, but it looks like lamps rich in UV might work. Grow lights (rich in red) did not work. They have been grown for years in green houses.

MurCurY
10-02-2011, 04:03 PM
Any suggestions on where to get a "starter colony"?

urbanfarmer
10-02-2011, 06:23 PM
According to this (incomplete map, but gives a good idea): http://www.waldeneffect.org/blog/Black_soldier_fly_101/

You border a state that reportedly has the species locally. You can try the different methods to attract them from the environment since you are on a bordering state; there may be some colonies in your state from time to time. It's worth a shot.

If not, google around you will find some sellers. Also, BSFman can chime in, he's the resident expert on such things! :D

badflash
10-04-2011, 04:45 AM
They are available from a lot of sellers that cater to lizzards. They are known as Phoenix worms in the trade. They ship well in cool weather.

bsfman
10-04-2011, 10:29 PM
They are available from a lot of sellers that cater to lizzards. They are known as Phoenix worms in the trade. They ship will in cool weather.

Phoenix Worms is a trademarked name by Dr. Shephard, an entymologist who has studied BSF and developed BSF as pet food - catering primarily to the reptile owners market. But that is merely a trade name for one supplier of BSF larvae (there are many others). BSF larvae do not ship well in ANY climate extreme, cool or warm.

The best time to establish a colony is late springtime or early summer - definitely not in the fall. If you do not have an endemic population in your area, it is unlikely you can establish a colony without considerable effort and expense at maintaining a climate and light controlled indoor environment for them - particularly at this time of year. Even then, it is difficult to induce mating to sustain a population (though it IS possible). If you DO have a native population, a starter kit is really not needed.

BSF are rarely found above USDA ag zone 6b. They tend to not be found generally in dry, desert areas or above 2500 foot elevation.

I do currently provide eggs and larvae to a few large commercial accounts, but several bad experiences dealing with dead beat individuals persuaded me to not mess with starter kits any more. Perhaps I might rethink that philosophy come spring, but currently, virtually all of my egg and hatchling production is spoken for.

aquaarche
10-05-2011, 01:10 AM
I would give warning composting with any type of manure creates very warm temperatures in your composting mix. Any bacterias or viruses that are bacteria related can multiply and mutate in that bacterial system. where masks and gloves when shoveling or handling it. Also wash your face and hands when you are done especially before you eat.

Flies, dirt, worms, manure and humans add millions/billions of bacteria that will thrive and mutate, so you can unknowingly create new bacterial diseases and infections that previously did not exist.

badflash
10-05-2011, 05:10 AM
I have a paper some place on artificial breeding of BSF's in a greenhouse setting. They were able to get them to breed as long as the temperature was kept warm and they had direct exposure to sunlight. They failed when using artificial light. I suspect they need UV as they did not use daylight bulbs.

badflash
10-05-2011, 05:24 AM
http://www.insectscience.org/10.202/i15 ... 10-202.pdf (http://www.insectscience.org/10.202/i1536-2442-10-202.pdf)
This isn't what I was looking for, but it does show that they have now succeeded in breeding under artifial light.

foodchain
05-01-2013, 07:44 AM
Okay, I used to breed reptiles. And we fed "phoenix worms" at a very high price to the hatchlings. IF it's the same critter. How do I get started growing these? We used those worms because they had such a high fat/calcium ratio compared to most other options of similar size. I have got to get a culture going, and this will reduce my grow out phases of fry and fingerlings dramatically. AND I hav copius amounts of rabbit/chicken waste to function as a medium that I need an effecient way to break down quickly. Please provide more info! Thanks.

I see bsfman's posts and info....but I want more......OR an alternative that's more appropriate for my climate since my temps are likely not ideal.

eddiemigue
05-01-2013, 01:29 PM
I'm looking to start up a colony of these myself. Have heard of neighbors who've had them in their compost bins, buy I haven't seen them in mine. So I guess they're native here (7a), but only active during the warm months. I'm thinking of starting a colony in my ap room to go year round.

It'd be great to have these process my future tilapia leftovers, and serve as a supplement feed for my hens.

bsfman
05-01-2013, 02:41 PM
I'm looking to start up a colony of these myself. Have heard of neighbors who've had them in their compost bins, buy I haven't seen them in mine. So I guess they're native here (7a), but only active during the warm months. I'm thinking of starting a colony in my ap room to go year round.

It'd be great to have these process my future tilapia leftovers, and serve as a supplement feed for my hens.

Unlikely you have a native population if you live much north off Kentucky. If you do, they won't likely show up until the average daily highs hit 78F or higher.

eddiemigue
05-01-2013, 04:03 PM
Thanks bsfman. Guess I'll have to shell out the $30 duckets or so for a starter colony.

I plan to set these up in my ap room, but I don't necessarily want the flies all over, so I am wondering if it would be worth it to provide a separate enclosure or let them fly around the room. I also plan to setup a red worm composting bin in the same room, and figure that if I keep flies from accessing the worm bin, then nothing else would be a concern.

bsfman
05-01-2013, 06:00 PM
Thanks bsfman. Guess I'll have to shell out the $30 duckets or so for a starter colony.

I plan to set these up in my ap room, but I don't necessarily want the flies all over, so I am wondering if it would be worth it to provide a separate enclosure or let them fly around the room. I also plan to setup a red worm composting bin in the same room, and figure that if I keep flies from accessing the worm bin, then nothing else would be a concern.

If you keep BSF in the same room with your worms, it is inevitable the worm bins will wind up with BSF larvae. You might be successful in keeping the adult flies out of your worm bin, but they will lay eggs on and near the bin and the microscopic hatchlings WILL find a way in! This is not necessarily an issue though, since BSF and worms can co-exist in a somewhat symbiotic relationship.

A screened or mesh fabric enclosure might serve to keep the population of BSF contained and increase the likelihood of captive breeding.

eddiemigue
05-01-2013, 06:05 PM
How big does the enclosure have to be? Say that I build a bucket, or rubbermaid tote BSF composter.

bsfman
05-02-2013, 03:04 AM
How big does the enclosure have to be? Say that I build a bucket, or rubbermaid tote BSF composter.

For that size, you won't need much. Maybe a 4 foot cube would be enough. You need to put a few plants inside for leaking sites.

eddiemigue
05-02-2013, 06:53 PM
Thanks again. Noob question - what are leaking sites?

bsfman
05-02-2013, 07:04 PM
Thanks again. Noob question - what are leaking sites?

"Lekking sites" - the male adult BSF take up residence on plant leaves and when other males or females approach, they do an aerial dance to scare away the male competitors and entice the females into a bug booty call type situation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lek_mating#Lekking_behavior

eddiemigue
05-02-2013, 07:22 PM
LOL. As I read "entice the females into a bug booty call type situation" I somehow heard a Bow Chiki Bow Bow (70's porn music) in the background.

Aloha Don
05-03-2013, 05:32 PM
Those who dont enjoy AP...Have not been on this site :-)

15mules
07-17-2013, 05:14 PM
I live here in North Central Arkansas, not far from Missouri line, I have 9 of my mules in a small pasture here by the house. They like to go in the same places, but not the same place I would like them to. I usually wind up taking the front end loader and scooping it all up and pushing it up in a pile. When the pile gets 8' high or so (usually 2 or 3 times a year) I load it up in an old 1 ton dump I have and move it to where I need it, usually 3 or 4 loads each time. The garden or the yard or somewhere. That is how I have made topsoil in most of my yard, as mostly all we have is rock. They don't call it "Stone" county for nothing. The thing is, I have never noticed any BSF around the big pile. Maybe I just did not know what I was looking for, but I have really never seen any thing besides normal ole house flies out there. The pile gets pretty hot down inside, maybe it is too hot for them?? I have sticky fly strips hanging down by the stables and the same thing, just normal ole house flies. the summers here are really hot, seems like it would not be too cold for them?? Any body know for sure how far their range north is?? It seems logical as stated before if they are not naturally in an area there is probably a reason and it would probably be difficult to propagate them.

bsfman
07-17-2013, 09:48 PM
Looks like you are in USDA zone 6a or 6b, 15mules. That's pretty much right on the edge of their range. My guess is if you are in 6b, you probably have a native population. If you are in 6a, you probably do not.

15mules
07-18-2013, 04:55 AM
Thanks bsf, like I said figured I would have seen some if they were there, if not on the big pile then at least a few stuck to the fly strips, but just never have. I think I will check with out county extension agent when I get home and see what they say.

bsfman
07-18-2013, 05:21 AM
You could try setting out a bucket of kitchen scraps ( rotten fruit, stale bread, coffee grounds, etc.). Keep it moist and cover with a lid shimmed up a half inch to an inch. Initially, you'll get fruit flies, house flies, blow flies, but after 3 weeks, you may see BSF larvae. After 2 more weeks, you can tell for sure by their size.

15mules
07-18-2013, 10:04 AM
Thanks, I will try that when I get home.