Some Equipmnet ????

[Hotrodmike]

I figured I would do a layout of the system I am putting together so I can get some pro and con's on my thoughts.
Ok as you know I was going with a 1500 gallon tank using a 1800 GPH pump . I was going to use a 3000 or 4500 GPH pond filter with backwash (for my dirt plants ) .Most of these filters come with UV but from my understaning that can knock out some of your trace minerals the plants need ,so will just not plug it in . The commercial air pump has an output of 250 LPM (about 6 cfm) with several commercial 12" air membranes. I want to start out with about 4 -4'x6'x1' grow beds three running media and the 4th being a raft tank. The raft tank will also have an air membrane at the headwater just to dump some air and make sure my plants got good O2 for the roots . When I expand the greenhouse I will be able to add more grow beds . Fish load will be based on the system . I was leaning toward Tilapia but it is a PIA with the licenceing in Texas but I guess if I find nothing equal to or better I will just have to shell out more money to the state to make food arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
So any comments ,questions ,telling me I'm way off ,better ideas ?????????
I also am looking for any ideas on the GB's like I said I would like to do 4x6 a foot deep . I have come up with several ways ; Wood with pond liners . Wood with fiberglass resin and reinforced seams , Ferrocement . or completely out of fiberglass
Target Practice is Open!!!!!!!!
Have A Kind Day
Mike

[GreenPhoenix]

As a fellow texan -- I can tell you that getting Nile or Blue tilapia in TX is certainly a PITA!

HOWEVER, you can easily get Mozambique Tilapia without a permit or inspection or anything.... Also as long as you keep them in cages off the bottom of the tank, you don't have to worry about them spawing early. They will get to a large enough size to make raising them for meat worthwhile (especially if you can keep water temp up...) And if you want to, they spawn like crazy!

Phoenix

[badflash]

If you have growbeds, you can save your money and not get a filter at all. The outlet from the growbed can be pumped up for your RAFT or you can put the beds high, raft a little lower and the fish tank at the bottom.

Pump is sized right for your system.

[davidstcldfl]

Hey Miike,

I was going to use a 3000 or 4500 GPH pond filter with backwash (for my dirt plants )

Not sure which pond fillter you were thinking about (?) You might consider a 'diy' solids seperator. Several different styles/kinds can be made....and use the savings for other cool stuff...
I made mine from a 55 gal plastic barrel. When I clean it, I use it on my citrus, blueberries and other plants in the dirt.
I also added 2 'diy' bio-filters, which also help clean the water and convert the nitrates to nitrites, for the AP plants to use.
Badflash already mentioned this, while i was typing at 'turtle speed'...
If you feed your 'raft' from the media filled beds...the water will already be clean(er).


GreenPhoenix made some good points about the tilapia...

But even in central FL, our water 'can' get too cold for tilapia. So, I just bought some channel catfish Mike. They do better outside, when it's cold, then tilapia. I don't think I'll even have to heat the water for them.
I'm not set up to breed them, but they are readily available. They aren't too costly to buy. They do need a little more time to grow though.

I'll be moving my tilapia into my workshop. The water will go outside to filters, then to 'rafts'. I'll be adding 'hoops' over each raft bed for shade cloth in the summer and plastic in the winter, if needed. Hope the shade cloth keeps most bugs out.
I also hope, the styrofoam rafts will hold in some heat, in the winter.

If you want to build some wooden beds...here's what my new ones will be like....
My rafts will be on the ground, with 2x6 PT boards.( coral boards) 2 rows high...I was thinking of 4' wide by 16' long. 2 sheets of styrofoam will cover each one, which I'll cut, to make them easier to handle/move.
Mike, you could go 4 x 8' , at least for your raft. That way, you use a full sheet of styrofoam.

I already bought my liner....it's thick vinyl. It's actually used billboard vinyl. I don't know if it would be tough enough for course media ? I'd think it could deal with hydroton or really smooth river rocks.
If you want some nice fiberglass grow beds...go to DIY 'home page' and click on 'Backwater provisions' ad.

I'm sure you'll be getting 'lots more' suggestions.....

[Hotrodmike]

Phoenix
I hear you on the fish and am still in the what will work the best and cost the least for Me

Bad
I wanted the back wash feature as much as anything .Then you have the thing of when your GB or GB's are down for cleaning ,re-croping or maint. you still have at least some filtration plus the less solids that go in the grow bed the better . The filter I saw on flea-bay was rated for 3500gph has a UV light ,foam filters and a bio-filter chamber . Did no think it was too bad for 130 bucks ,I could be wrong . if not for the backwash feature I would have just taken one of my old hot-tub filters ,replace the element with a drilled stand tube and stuffed her full of bio-material .
Might be an idea for someone that wanted a preasure type bio-filter .

David
See filter above ,not sure brand .
Man I hate to say this but growing up in the south I really am fried on catfish , no pun intended
As for the grow bed I would love for them all to be 4x8 but Overlord has only allocated a square foot area of .5 so I have 24x6 minus the end by the door until I can expand the greenhouse . The greenhouse is basicly 1/2 of a 24x24 so the normal thing would be to make the left 1/2 which would enclose my tank or it the tank works out being outside (do plan a shade roof over it ) add another right side to the end making it 12x48 . Problem is I do not have the extra money to buy the polycor siding and the steel tubing to build the frame . If I did them on the ground I would have to do another pump and a sump and that would mean more diggin
I was thinking about fiberglass and understand how to build a mold and have done enough repair on Vettes and Lotus to know its not something I care to do but can . I am trying to get the guys in the body shop to do this after hours they do owe me money
I talked to Stucco on his though they are smaller than I wanted but figured shipping would be the killer but have not heard back yet. I even thought of doing 2x18x1 beds but if I did that they both would end up as Ebb/Flow and I would have no room for any raft . Always what you dont have <VBG> plenty of land but enclosed grow area at a premium . I could use my 3000' warehouse but lighting would kill me and make the front page "Huge Grow Room Busted but Turns Out To Be Lettuce"
Have A Kind Day
Mike

[Hotrodmike]

Phoenix
Are you sure on the info about Mossies ? The Texas code does not read like that!
Here is the Texas code http://info.sos.state.tx.us/pls/pub/...=57&sch=A&rl=Y
It sounds like they are lumping any and all Tilapia into the same class "Invasive"
You really have to be careful messing with DNR as unlike most LEO's they do not even need a warrant to come in
The rules also change if you sell or deliver any fish so it's different depending on intent ,damn legal junk tend to complicate such simple things !
Have A Kind Day
Mike

[GreenPhoenix]

Mike - according to the three individuals that I have talked to at TPWD and the one individual at TX Dept of Agriculture -- this situation is this: Mossies will not survive in Texas waters year round, therefore they are allowed for personal stocking in either private ponds as forage fish or in self-contained systems (like AP systems). There is NO exotic species permit required. However, you will need an exotic species permit if you want to keep Nile, Blue or any hybrid that contains part of either of those species. Any fish that contains any percentage of the T. hornorum species of Tilapia is strictly forbidden and highly illegal.

So in short - if you are going to be raising these fish for personal consumption in private system, you do not need any specific type of permit or such. But you are correct, if you want to sell the fish you will need to apply for a formal "Aquaculture" license from the TX Dept of Agri. If you do so, and still want to raise Mossies, you will still not need an exotic permit. But at that point, you might as well go ahead and spend the extra $50 per year and be able to raise the Nile or a hybrid that has a better growth rate and max size...

I am not claiming any omniscient perfection here, but that is the way it was explained to me when I did my research a few months ago... I would of course, urge you to confirm everything on your own before trusting my words as gospel... But that being said as a disclaimer - I am going to follow what I was told.

Phoenix

[Hotrodmike]

Thanks I did not know if you got the info from the horses mouth or what . I read the whole damn law section and was more confused than when I started
I still will call them just to see if anything has changed ,I live in a Black-out zone or something else some dumb lawyers wrote
I will assume by survival you meant the temp goes too low in the winter ?
That would mean more heat (expense ) for heating the tank more than with some other breeds . I have to rate all the pro's and con's
It kind of gets me as I can be rated a hobby but if I sell ANY fish to other AP'ers or a neighbor to eat I have to get a license and to pay for the license I have to grow more fish to sell to pay all the BS . I guess their is no middle of the road with anything tied to any form of Gov. enity . I had not intended to do commercial production but would at least like to be able to offset my costs not to make a living . I guess the american way would be to run it as a business in the hole and just write it all off as a tax loss
Have A Kind Day
Mike

[keith_r]

12" may be a little shalow for growbeds, first because you don't want the media to the very top, and you don't flood over the top of the media, you won't be filtering 12" depth in your gb, more like 9 or 10,
i haven't really found a consensus on "recommended" growbed depth, but have seen them anywhere from 22" to 4", with everything i between..
can also depend on what you are planting, deep rooting, or shallow..
best of luck!

[Hotrodmike]

Keith
from my understanding 12-14 is about as good as it gets as I think it's more about having enough anchor to hold plants .Now if I was doing some real tall or top heavy I might go deeper . Now if you were talking bio-filter footage then yes you are correct you can only count the bed you flood and since you dont flood to the top or top off your media you are not getting a full 12".
Strange as the only store bought trays are only 7" deep but I guess the manufactures have not caught on to AP and the differences . I was shooting for 12 in a 7" world but have been unable to cross anything (in different industries ) that would make good grow beds but everything seem to be too shallow ,too deep ,too small or too big. So I gather I will end up making them . Narrowed that down to wood & liner or fiberglass unless some other great option comes up . I would prefer fiberglass as it will far outlast liner but the cost will come into play .So what kind of beds did you come up with ?
Have A Kind Day
Mike