Adjusting PH and adding worms

[bsfman]

Without worms, you would get the same amount of buildup of solids.


brian

I agree. Worms don't add anything that isn't already there. I also think the worms speed the breakdown of old roots which can trap fish poo and speed clogging.

[JCO]

That's where the true Aquaponic System setup comes into play and in this order:-

1) Fish tank:- contains the fish

2) Sump:- Vessel used to slow down the flow of water so that large particles of poo and uneaten food in addition to micro-particulates can settle to the bottom to be remove at your convenience.

3) Bio-filter:- Vessel used to filter any remaining particulates and house the nitrification bacteria.

4) Grow bed:- Vessel used to house and grow vegetables or any other plant you desire. The only cleaning that may be necessary is to remove any plant root system that might remain in the grow media after the plant has run its course and has to be removed.

I was introduced to Aquaponics in 1967 by a very good friend who is now deceased. I have been actively involved in Aquaponics (a system of one sort or other of my own up and running) since 1987.

My experience level in a very small way, is comparable to Thomas Edison and the light bulb. Over the years I have tried more wild scenarios and configurations of Aquaponic Systems than can be imagined in an effort to recreate the wheel.

I am an Aquaponic Purest. My philosophy is:-

1) Construct the Aquaponic System according to the 4 steps outlined above.

2) Do not add anything to the system that isn't absolutely necessary for it to work properly or that will at sometime in the future create more work.

3) Once set up, keep your finger out of it. Don't try to micro-manage nature.

And that's it.

Now my other philosophy is to always state the facts of how an Aquaponic System works and then allow each and every individual do it their own way.

I consider all the individuals on this forum my friends and I enjoy and delight in reading each and every post made here and I will always try to help where I can.

I will not ever tell anyone "YOU HAVE TO DO IT MY WAY". For every person who has an Aquaponic System up and running, you will find that somewhere in that system, they have inserted a piece of their self. Whether it be worms, or a particular grow media such as fine gravel etc. and that's what makes the world go around.

So with that in mind, I have said my piece about worms in the grow bed. You reap what you sow.

[keith_r]

if you are overstocking, or underfiltered, you will probably have to clean out your growbeds no matter what you do..
in a discussion, i like to use facts.. and the fact is, worms do add quite a bit to an ap system..and i've seen systems running over 5 years that have not had to have their media "cleaned"
but if you're pushing more solds through the system than it is designed for.. well.. you're going to need maintenance no matter what you do..

[dsrtlzrd32]

Well shoot, this has turned into a pretty good discussion about worms! My preference was to just go ahead and add them since I enjoy worms. I even ate one one time to gross out my sisters when I was a boy . Can't say I would do that again though. Hopefully their castings are benifiting my plants... can't be hurting them at least. I made a mistake of having a bit more shallow growbeds and from what I have read, will mean I have to clean them more frequently.

As far as getting a system to cycle, I read recently on a Phillipines site that they use a bag or more of chicken manure (high in ammonia) hanging in the water to start the cycling

I have chickens and boy do they poop! I will have to look into that.

[bbikebbs]

... but if you're pushing more solds through the system than it is designed for.. well.. you're going to need maintenance no matter what you do..

This is very true for ANY system. Overload it for long enough and you will have to do some maintenance.

[JCO]

Brian, I am not trying to be argumentative and that was not intended to appear as my resume.

If, just in case you haven't seen it since it's on the main site and if you are in the least interested to learn something more about me, check out this link. It will give you a better picture of who I am and what I bring to the Aquaponic table when it comes to knowledge and experience. http://www.diyaquaponics.com/about-me/


Now in answer to your question:

I was just asking for you to expand on your previous statement of why a wormed grow bed would require more maintenance than one without worms.

Answer:

what does a worm do They eat...right...and when they eat, what comes out the other end? Worm poo.....DIRT..

and I rest my case. They do not remove anything, they just turn it to worm poo

Worm poo is the purest form of dirt but none the least, it is still dirt.

Now how do you prevent the problem of suffering from a clogged grow bed? Ideally you would construct your system as follows and take particular note of number 2. That is the major defense against clogging and solves the problem greatly and that is then backed up by number 3.

Believe me, if you construct it correctly, what I am telling you is fact.

Here are the 4 steps to creating an Aquaponic System (the purest way)

1) Fish tank:- contains the fish

2) Sump:- Vessel used to slow down the flow of water so that large particles of poo and uneaten food in addition to micro-particulates can settle to the bottom to be remove at your convenience.

3) Bio-filter:- Vessel used to filter any remaining particulates and house the nitrification bacteria.

4) Grow bed:- Vessel used to house and grow vegetables or any other plant you desire. The only cleaning that may be necessary is to remove any plant root system that might remain in the grow media after the plant has run its course and has to be removed.

Now please, operate your Aquaponic System anyway you please and only take my advice with a grain of salt if it does not co-inside with your likes or dislikes. I'm' not here to intimidate or coerce you into doing anything other than what you please.

[keith_r]

sorry, but saying it's "just dirt" is factually incorrect.. and i stand by my statements

[JCO]

As I previously stated Keith_r:-

Worm poo is the purest form of dirt but none the least, it is still dirt.

That should have smooth your feathers I would have thought.

Here again, we are still talking about an individuals choice as to how to operate their own Aquaponics System and as I said:-

Now please, operate your Aquaponic System anyway you please and only take my advice with a grain of salt if it does not co-inside with your likes or dislikes.

This is not the first time the question of worms in grow beds has been discussed on this forum and each time I have posted to it, my stance has been the same.

[keith_r]

understood, and my feathers aren't ruffled.. . but sometimes statements like "it's pure dirt" or "just dirt"are just factually incorrect..
i like to discuss and debate, at least when facts are used
worm "poop" is "worm castings";
Earthworms derive their nutrition from many forms of organic matter in soil including decaying plant parts, decomposing remains of animals, and living organisms such as nematodes, protozoans, rotifers, bacteria, fungi. They can produce their own weight in castings every 24 hours. During the digestive process, many insoluble minerals are converted to a plant-available soluble form and long-chain molecules such as cellulose are partially broken down by bacteria in the digestive tract. Investigations show that fresh earthworm casts are several times richer in available nitrogen, available phosphates and available potash than the surrounding topsoil.
Worm castings also contain many beneficial bacteria and enzymes. The analysis of wormcastings reveals that the number of beneficial bacteria in the ejected worm casting is much higher than in the material ingested by the earthworm.

i may have a point of view on things, but i don't base my debates on my opinion, i look for results.. and factually speaking worms break down detrious into forms that are more immediately available for the plants.. i want good plants and a healthy system..i'll use composting worms

[keith_r]

and i forgot to mention the benefits of worm castings as pest control:
Testing has shown that several microorganisms found in worm castings work as effective repellants for a large array of insects. A key element for insect repellency is the level of chitinase-producing organisms. Chitinase is an enzyme that will dissolve chitin. The exoskeleton of bugs is made of chitin [so obviously they don't want to hang out where their skeletons will get dissolved!]. Bugs have various detection mechanisms to determine the level of chitinase in plants and soil. Once the chitinase level is high enough, they will leave the area. Worm castings test with a very high level of chitinase-producing organisms.

Also, some elements in worm castings are able to activate the chitinase-producing organisms found inside plants. Once triggered, these organisms multiply to a level that can be detected by the insects. The repellency effectiveness has been tested and confirmed for white fly, aphids, spider mites and various other bugs. Twenty various plants have been tested showing effectiveness. The rate of repellency is in direct relation to the size of the plant. Spider mites will leave houseplants in about 2 weeks, aphids leave roses in about 6 weeks, and white flies will leave full sized hibiscus in about 3 months.

In November 2002, California Vermiculture was granted a U.S. Patent for the use of worm castings as an insect repellant, and they in the process of obtaining EPA approval to label their worm castings as an insect repellant. Currently, Wormgold® castings are being tested for use against the pine bark beetle.